🎙️ Transcript: How to Hold Yourself and Others Accountable

"How to Hold Yourself and Others Accountable"
Make It Happen Podcast | Sell Better by JB Sales
John Barrows, Ralph Barsi
August 30, 2022

John Barrows (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome back to "Make It Happen Monday." It's where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between, with guests who I truly respect and who I feel make a genuine and positive impact on the world around us.

And today's episode is all about positivity with my good friend, Ralph Barsi here. Now Ralph and I have known each other for a while. He's been on the podcast before. He's the VP of Global Inside Sales at Tray.io, but he's just one of the best, nicest people I've ever come across.

And every time I have a conversation with Ralph, I walk away with a different perspective. I hope you do too. In this episode, we talk a lot about the "give a shit" factor. I did a post on LinkedIn a little while ago about, man, I just wish people would give a shit because once you give a shit, it's amazing what can happen.

(00:49):
So we used that as the basis for the conversation and went all the way through about how you show up, even accountability and how you hold yourself accountable and hold others accountable.

We talked about removing obstacles as a leader and what your role is in that, and how you need to genuinely give a shit about your employees, not just their numbers, but where they're going in their lives.

Ralph gave some great tips around keeping your world small, thinking about who's the person who sacrificed for you, and therefore, not wanting to disappoint that person, which I thought was a great point.

And then, also looking five years out, and as yourself five years out, and looking back on yourself today and saying, would I be proud of that five years from now?

And so there's all these things that Ralph talks about that I think are really healthy for us to discuss and try to spread so that we can really keep moving in a more positive direction with our mindset, with what we're working on, and everything else. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Let's make it happen.

James Buckley (01:49):
What's happening, Make It Happen family. Big shout out to our partners today, Gong, Proposify, Vidyard, and Chili Piper.

Gong's data is more than valuable. It's a cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes.

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Our friends at Chili Piper are so much fun to be around. They make it easy for people to get on your calendar, and every sales rep has got to have this function locked in. It's one of the most important things we can do as a seller. How can I get you on my calendar easily? Chili Piper can make that happen for you. Be sure that you're checking out all these great tools.

And now let's pass it over to John to find out who's joining him today. See you soon, everybody.

John Barrows (03:00):
Hey Ralph. What's going on, brother? How are you doing, man?

Ralph Barsi (03:03):
What's up my man? How are you doing?

John Barrows (03:05):
It's an interesting world we're living in right now, my friend, and I'm doing my best to navigate it. I think I'm doing alright, but highs and lows like everybody else, but it's been a minute since we last chatted. When was the last time? I know we had the podcast a couple years back, but when was the last time you and I caught up?

Ralph Barsi (03:26):
Last time was right as the pandemic hit. It was early 2020. Everybody was home and we were talking about just how to navigate those waters, working from home and working remotely, not being in the office environment with your team anymore. And I mean, it feels like it was last week, but it was obviously two years ago.

John Barrows (03:49):
I don't know about you. I have zero sense of time anymore. Covid has screwed me all up when it comes to that. I'm like, was that last week or was that two years ago, or was that?

I honestly, I have no clue these days on time, which actually leads into...We talk a lot. I think the reason you and I, our conversations are so easy, we got the values thing nailed down and we both look at things similarly.

And there's this one thing that I think unifies me, you, and a lot of the other people that I try to associate myself with, which is that "give a shit" factor.

And I put that video out last week when I was just like, "ah, I just wish we would stop just cramming numbers and go all the time and actually just give a shit."

But it wasn't just about the prospect, it was about give a shit about your career. It was about give a shit about your health. It's about give a shit about the client. It's the genuine big, give a shit factor here.

And you saw that and kind of pinging me, and let's talk about that from your perspective. Love to hear from you what the give a shit factor means, and then let's peel it apart with some areas that we can dissect of how to give a shit a little bit more effectively these days.

Ralph Barsi (05:02):
Yeah. So thanks for doing it, John. I really appreciate you producing that video and just letting us know what you think. I mean, it obviously resonated with a lot of people.

If you go back and take a look at that post, probably the number of views you got was in the tens of thousands. And when people start talking about that factor among themselves without even circling back with you, that you're on point with something.

And also, what you mentioned earlier rings true, in that this message permeates professionally, personally, in a lot of different facets of our life.

Because if you zoom out and you look at life, we've got one shot at this - are you going to represent yourself with high standards and represent those around you with high standards? Namely your team, your company, your colleagues in your profession, et cetera, or you're going to half-ass this?

(05:54):
No matter how you slice it, you're setting an example. Not everybody's going to tell you about the example you're setting with them and what type of model you are or not.

So, just assume that everybody's going to be providing you with that feedback at the end of the day or the end of the week, and you want to come correct.

You want to represent yourself well with very high standards and frankly with some class. And that requires leaning into what you're doing at every turn. So, I really appreciate that you even put that message out.

John Barrows (06:27):
Thank you. And it's sad that I have to, because I think that's the thing that I was probably so frustrated about is that I felt like I needed to put that out in a lot of ways because reputation matters now more than ever in so many ways.

And I'm curious how you look at reputation, right? Because I think a lot of people, and I'm going to translate this to personal brands, everybody talks about personal brand building and all that other stuff, but ultimately to me what that says is "what's your reputation?"

What's your online reputation? What do people say about you when they're not looking at you, when they're not having a conversation with you? So how do you look at your reputation now, with the experience that you have, and what are some things that you would say to some of the younger sales professionals coming up on the importance of reputation and how to think about it as they go through their careers?

Ralph Barsi (07:19):
For those coming up, I would really encourage them to see themselves 5, 10, 20 years from now. And every action you take right now is going to have a consequence.

Every decision you make is important and will have a consequence to it as well. So, all I'd ask is don't let that person down. You're going to meet that person - yourself - five years from now, and you don't want them to look at you and say, "John, why'd you go that route? Now I've got to work extra hard to rebuild our reputation, or now I'm the one who has to lean in, roll up the sleeves, and show a little more grit because you didn't do it from the start."

So, as difficult as it might be for some people, I'm really encouraging the importance of visualizing who you're going to become while you're at work.

A lot of people want to punch-in, punch-out, and go to the next party or watch the next football game without really taking their reputation seriously as to who they're becoming in the process.

John Barrows (08:27):
Yeah, I mean, look, I've been very conscious of mine - of my reputation, of the values, and all that other stuff, but I'll tell you right now, man, that there's some shit that I look back on and I say, "I wish I didn't do that," or "I wish I didn't say that," or "I wish I didn't react that way."

And when you say it comes back around, there is no question it comes back around. I mean, there's some things going on with me right now that are a hundred percent a consequence of how I acted in a certain moment.

I'm mostly positive, but some very, very negative, very, very specific things that have manifested themselves. And it wasn't immediately when I did it, you know what I mean? It was something that came way back around and it was a perception that I left with somebody else that, all of a sudden, is coming back to bear fruit here, not in good ways.

(09:21):
And those are the pieces that I look back and I say, "damnit, I wish I shouldn't have reacted that way."

How do you control yourself though? I mean, you're a much more calm, cool, collected guy than I am as far as react. I mean, I tend to lose my mind on people and sometimes let it fly a little bit.

But how do you think of bad situations? So, let's put the scenarios out there: I lost a deal, I've got customer lied to me, I'm getting bad feedback from a manager. You know what I mean?

A lot of negative things that you could react negatively to, but what's your mentality when you come to something that is negative that is coming at you? Do you have a process you go through with your mentality around how to react to something like that?

Ralph Barsi (10:04):
I don't know if it's a process, but a couple things that I act on is I try to detach from the situation emotionally and I try to look at it objectively.

So, I'll zoom out as much as I can to look down on the situation, and I'll try to start with myself. I want to make sure that I'm holding myself accountable to doing a lot of the things that I say I would do to serving others, to being mindful of others, to being grateful for people and for things. So, I kind of do a self-assessment, I guess, against those criteria.

(10:43):
"Are you grateful for this opportunity?" "Were you five years ago or five weeks ago? Whenever the old Ralph had to deal with this situation."

And I try to check myself first, and then I try to seek first to understand before being understood. So, I try to look at the situation through the eyes of the person, the other party that's involved to see how they maybe could have misinterpreted something, taken something out of context, et cetera.

And then I zoom back in to present to the Ralph Barsi of right now, in this moment, and try to make it right. And as you know, I have no problem talking with people about situations good or bad.

Also, I come from a source of forgiveness. I'm thankful, I'm forgiving. I give people the benefit of the doubt. It probably comes from probably my upbringing. I come from a strong Catholic family, and so pretty faith-filled family where I, still to this day, am at church every Sunday, and I'll invest an hour just grateful for what I've got and who I've got in my life, health, happiness, people, et cetera, opportunities.

(12:01):
So, I also think I lean towards the sunlight. So, I think people are generally good people, at the core. They're just probably often misunderstood and they probably don't represent themselves very well at the same time in a lot of cases.

But I try to see through that if I can to this person. "Hmm, this person laughs like I do. What can I do that makes them laugh?" You know what I mean?

"Something really bothers this person. What are the situations or the things that really bugged them? Maybe the better I can understand those factors, the more I can get into their groove and see things, the way they see 'em, the way they see things."

John Barrows (12:42):
Yeah, I'm really trying to get better at that and check myself from a reaction standpoint and try to see the benefit. I think I've done a good job recently, taking just the extra two seconds and thinking that, and not trying to take whatever it is personal.

I think that's what my problem has been in the past: that every feedback, every negative thing that somebody said or did, I took it personally like it was against me.

And a lot of times, you realize that it's not really you. It's whatever's going on in that person's head, background, family, whatever that is, and they're reacting in a certain way and it's now being thrown on you, but it's not really you.

And I think that was one of the things for me that I realized that's...and, actually, I learned this basically through my daughter, because there are kids in her school for instance, and she's 11, Charlotte's 11 now, and she's got other kids who act out in school or react to her a certain way and whatever.

(13:40):
And when we peel it back, we find out their parents are going through a divorce and the kids being shuffled around and all this other stuff.

And we're trying to have those conversations with her saying, "look, it's not really about you, it's about what she's going through and she's just using you as the punching bag effectively here, and that sucks, but you got to take a step back and not take it."

So personally, and I've actually used that myself to realize most of the stuff that comes at me is not personal in any way. I mean even the person hanging up the phone or ripping you apart on an email that you send that they think is shitty, it's like 9 times out of 10 that's like their frustrations not because of what you did, right?

Ralph Barsi (14:20):
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, it's a real tough thing to deal with. And for you, especially, you talked earlier about reputation and how it must precede us, it's, I think, much tougher for you because your name's on the door, you're accountable to a lot of staff that represent JB sales, and the entity that is John Barrows, and the brand that is John Barrows.

And yeah, I'd be much more sensitive to situations because you're being watched by your staff, for example, and not to mention your customers and partners, but that's equally, I mean, not equally. It's doubly hard, I think, in your case.

John Barrows (15:06):
It's interesting, I'll tell you that I never wanted to build my personal brand. I never wanted to make the company John Barrows or JB Sales or any of that stuff.

I kind of got into it. I had to because I learned that you got to brand yourself if you're going to do this, and I've always wanted to just to be me, but to your point, the bigger you get, the blessing and the curse of the more people that follow you and the more bigger you get, your words have meaning, your words have consequences. You know what I mean?

I can't just tee off on somebody and rip 'em apart on for whatever reason, having a bad day or something like that, because that permeates through brand reputation, those type of things.

And if I remember actually, you and I know Kyle Porter, I remember when I first started getting on Instagram, I was traveling so much and all I was using on Instagram, I was just using it to bitch.

(15:57):
I was like, oh, this fucking...I'm so exhausted...and this flight sucked...and this person farted on the plane and I was, literally, everything was negative. I was using Instagram as my way to vent about negative things.

Kyle was the one who reached out to me and he said, "John, can I just give you some unsolicited advice here, man? The person I know is not the person I see on Instagram." He's like, "the person I know is a positive, always really trying to make other people happy, and that type of stuff. And I see you on Instagram and you're just a negative fucking jackass. So recommendation here, you might want to switch that up."

And it was like a light bulb dawned on me. I was like, "Ooh." Because that's what people are seeing. They're not seeing the conversation I have with Ralph grabbing a drink at the bar, or when I call you up and say, "Hey, man, what's been up," they don't see that. They see that. And that's important because perception is reality in so many ways.

Ralph Barsi (16:51):
Oh, big time. It doesn't surprise me, hearing that that came from Kyle. He's definitely a guy who stays in the sunlight, no question.

And as you know, as your reputation gets bigger, this firsthand, when I was leaving the team at ServiceNow, I had 230 people that were rolling into me.

And the bigger your brand becomes or the bigger your reputation becomes, the larger your contingent of haters becomes as well. People just don't like you because of the role you're in. They feel they could do it better or someone else could. And the hate gets pretty thick. It's not fun, man.

John Barrows (17:33):
Yeah, well, it's not, but I think, and you have to go through the rollercoaster of learning how to deal with that. But I think if we go back to the values, if we go back to the purpose, and the why, and being a good person in general, I can kind of take that for what it's worth, it's like they don't actually know me.

They heard something that I said that was maybe out of context or whatever, and they made an opinion of me on two or three things that I did versus who I am as a person. And I think that's the same thing.

We don't take it - going back to not taking it personally - same thing with clients. I lose a deal. It is not personal. They didn't say, "I don't want you, John Barrows. I don't like you." They were like, "this isn't a fit for my company." Okay, whatever. I'm going to go find somebody else. Where did your, on the track of good person values being brand and person, you talk about serving others.

Ralph Barsi (18:23):
Yes.

John Barrows (18:24):
You seem to be somebody who's very rooted in values and serving others. Was that a conscious thing getting into business for you and sales?

When you got into sales, did you look at it as a service business for yourself? Is that, you were serving others, or did you come into sales?

A lot of people just being like, "Hey, sales, I can make some money" and I don't know. I got to figure out what to do here because what I'm trying to break down here is the why people are in sales. Some people get into it by default because they see it as at least path of resistance and "maybe I can make some money here."

Other people see it as a, "I can make a difference here by representing a product that I love and going, finding people that I can make a difference for." I think we evolved to that hopefully in a lot of ways. But I'm curious from your perspective getting into sales, what was your mentality of that serving others and where did it hit?

Ralph Barsi (19:17):
Yeah, it definitely evolved over time. That's not how I felt about the profession from the outset. It was more, I was responding to responses I would get from people like, "Hey, you should try sales, Barsi. You don't mind rapping with people, you don't mind confronting situations."

And so I jumped into it. And also there was the money factor of it as well. I knew that if I did well, I could live a really good life financially. But shortly after starting - I started at UPS 28 years ago this month as an account executive - I started to realize that it was a service business because of the company that I worked for. They are a service business, and that's how we were taught early on to approach our prospects and customers and serve 'em.

(20:12):
We would go to the back door of the building versus the front door because it was shipping leaders, supply chain managers. So that was my audience and that was my persona that I was talking to.

And they had problems they needed solved yesterday, and the only way that I could get through to them as someone of value and someone who could really help and serve them was to take that approach of service.

So it evolved over time, where I started to realize that I was really at the bottom of the org chart, especially when I started leading people versus the top of the org chart.

And I knew that I had an obligation to remove obstacles from people's paths so they can get where they needed to go in their career, and that it really wasn't about me at the end of the day.

The more alumni I could create that would go out and pay this forward with this type of approach, the better it would be for my reputation in my career in the long run, and I'd be able to positively impact even more people.

John Barrows (21:15):
You said something important there that I think a managers, if they're listening should hone in on, which is a huge part of your job as a manager, as a leader is to remove obstacles, is to get the shit out of people's way that doesn't matter so that they can become who they can become without having to deal with all the shit, and that's good, bad or indifferent.

That's what a manager's and a leader's job is, to basically coach your replacement. And with all your employees, get as many of the bullshit things out of the way as you possibly can so they can excel because they won't be able to excel if they have anchors all around them or if there's too many obstacles in their way.

And you could have some really great people who can do some really great things, but because of the org structure, because of the red tape that they have to go through or whatever it is, they're never going to reach their potential.

And I think that's what most managers, I think most reps would, even though they don't know it genuinely appreciate it when those obstacles, it's like a frictionless sale. The client is looking for a frictionless sale. They don't want to have to go through a stage process and all that.

It's the same thing with a rep. They want almost like a frictionless growth path that feels natural as they go through. And yes, is hard, but isn't unnecessarily hard for stupid reasons.

Ralph Barsi (22:28):
And if you're in tune to your people as a leader, you're going to be able to identify what the obstacles even are for them. For some people, it's they can't even manage their time well. Others, they're having a hard time establishing conversation flow with people. For others, they're obscured to the marketplace.

Nobody even knows who they are, so maybe you have to talk about branding with them. Others don't have an executive presence in meetings when it's needed.

They're asking closed questions versus open-ended questions. There's a lot of different ways that obstacles can appear, but if I am close to my team and I'm in touch with really why they're there in the first place and what they're trying to accomplish in their career, then I can quickly identify those obstacles as something that's really clearly in their way and I can help them deconstruct it, look at it as a very small obstacle so they can overcome it and move on.

(23:26):
But if I'm not paying attention to them and I'm not having conversations with them, regardless of how big the team is, then it's an uphill climb for both of us.

So I talked about ServiceNow having over 200 people, et cetera. I did everything I could to fly all over the world to sit with those people shoulder-to-shoulder and get to know them as best I could, whether they were two or three degrees away from me or not really didn't matter.

It's my time, it's my bandwidth, and this is my organization, and I want to make sure that I know my people and know collectively what they're all trying to accomplish so that I can help 'em get there.

That's the whole point.

John Barrows (24:05):
And help 'em get, I think you said some earlier too, of the five years out, 10 years out from your reputation standpoint, if you look at yourself 10 years out, what would you want to make sure you tell this person?

But it's also that plan of not just what do you want to do in your career here, that connection of where do you want to be in your life, Ralph, in the next five, 10 years, and how can I help you get there?

And I think once we cross that barrier of where I want to get in your career to I'm here to help you in your life and achieve happiness, whatever that happiness means to you, that's when I think there's a real connection of the employee, employer, leader, manager, whatever you got. But when you can genuinely tell that I had this theme for your connection here at JB Sales to pursuit of happiness, which is what's your pursuit?

(24:56):
What does happiness look like for you? Ultimately, what I'm trying to get you, I'm trying to help you get there. So what is that for you? And it's going to be different from you compared to somebody else, compared to somebody else.

But once you know that those are the questions that come up in the, in the coaching sessions, it's like, yes, we're coaching on very tactical things here, but hey, where are we on your your path? How's that going? How's the kids? How's the family?

Everybody on the right path here? And it makes such a difference. And it goes back to the give a shit factor ultimately, right?

Ralph Barsi (25:26):
Oh, big time. And it's infectious. If that's how they're being treated at work by their leaders, how can that not come off in front of prospects and customers or their peers?

John Barrows (25:40):
Be cool to people. I mean, this is why I tell people all the time, I completely disagree, and thankfully, I haven't heard it in a long time with "the customer's always right, and customer in front of everything," right?

"Oh no, the customer's the most important thing." Bullshit. Your employees are the most important thing, period. Because if you treat your employees right, they will treat the customers, right? Guaranteed.

And so that's the focus, and I think it's now more than ever, because people are realizing that it's not just about the job. I have options now and the work-life balance is different than me. Our priorities have shifted.

And so if you are not caring about me as a person, which is interesting, and I want to make this transition here because I talked about in the give a shit factor, reps, think about, actually, I'm thinking about this out loud right now.

(26:27):
I'd love to get your thoughts, as reps are yearning right now for the companies to give a shit about them, why they're leaving. They're like, oh, you don't care about me. I'm just a number to you, blah, blah, blah. But yet the reps don't give a shit in many about the customer. So it's a number, and I get it.

I'm being pushed down to do that. But how do you reconcile that, right? Is it something I just can't, I see it very clearly like, "oh, you don't value me." But then if I was a customer, I'd be like, "well, you don't value me."

So how do we connect the dots of the give a shit factor of why don't you value me versus why am I not valuing the customer?

Ralph Barsi (27:13):
Yeah. Well, I don't know if this is the answer. I don't know if there's a silver bullet to this. It's such a real problem and such a great topic to discuss.

Everybody's pressed to get the number today, and so that waters-down their approach to the marketplace. They're hasty, they're impatient, they want to move to the next step as quickly as possible, so they can make their number and move on.

Forgetting altogether that this is a world filled with humans who they have their own motives personally, that they're trying to achieve as well as professionally, and I think starts with the leaders and the companies.

"Here's your number, John. Let me tell you why it's your number. Let me tell you what you can expect from us to help guide and coach you towards this number. It might mean reverse engineering how you're going to get there.

(28:11):
You can rifle me with problems or concerns you have about the number, et cetera. But at the end of the day, both of us need to arrive at this number. Now, let's talk about you and what it is you're trying to accomplish by being here. Why are you here in the first place? Here's why we think you're here. We measure twice and cut once just to hire employees here. We thoroughly vet our candidates so that you're going to come in and complement our culture, and we're going to complement your world as well."

Once you've got that synergy going between employer and employee, now when they approach the prospect, they're going to those prospects with similar narratives.

"John, look, I understand these are probably your top three problems this year. These are huge problems for a lot of people that we're talking to. Let me tell you what we're putting in place to help them get where they're trying to go."

(29:04):
And it's a completely different conversation now and a completely different perception from the customer's point of view. I just don't think it's that difficult to do.

But everybody's in such a freaking rush that we're watering-down everything and it's making all of us look bad. And it's driving me crazy of late.

I mean, it breaks my heart that people have to post photos of themselves on LinkedIn with their kids, or in their home office, or standing in a pair of sweatpants with a nice top, so they're presentable online, just to make sure we're all reminded that they're humans too and that they have a life outside of work.

No shit! We all do. But the fact that you actually have to remind us means we have a major problem right now.

James Buckley (29:53):
What's up, everybody? I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heat.

We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity - an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday.

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This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL, one more time is join jbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guest for this week.

John Barrows (30:58):
And that's one of the things that kind of bums me out about Covid. Look, I've been a big benefactor in the sense I'm off an airplane and I can put my daughter to bed every single night. But the one thing that I really don't like about it, it has separated all of us.

And you know me, man, I'm a hugger when I see you too, Ralph. What's up? And now we can't do that. We can't interact or we've been forced to isolate. We've been forced to kind of inwardly focus on ourselves over priority over everybody else and not have that serving others mentality, not have that because quite honestly, I'm afraid, right?

I'm afraid to go out because I don't want to get sick, for instance. And so I think that's fractured a lot of this. And I'm curious from your standpoint, how do we get back to the humanity?

(31:46):
I mean, is this a shift that we're going through in history? I had a good conversation with Todd Caponi, and he's fantastic with history. He's got the sales historian podcast, and it's funny, he brought up some stuff like 1920, there was the Great Resignation, all these sales reps and the economy was, it was literally mirrored exactly.

The newspapers said the same thing. And then over the years, technology is going to replace salespeople. When the phone came out, they were like, oh, salespeople are ruined. And it's funny how we mirror things. So I'm curious that, do you think we're in a lull here of humanity and how we treat each other, or do you think this is kind of how things go from here?

Ralph Barsi (32:35):
Well, I am bullish that this is not how things will go from here. I do think we're going to get better. We're sinking pretty low though. I mean, I think about all the world events and political events, and I think that spills into how people are treating one another today.

And I do think we'll hit a bottom, so to speak, where we start to really turn around and start really caring about the people we're talking to at every incident. It doesn't matter who you're talking to, in what capacity, just pay attention to them for a second and it'll start to..trying to groundswell.

John Barrows (33:14):
Well, I'm trying to figure out what is "that switch," though? I think if I look back at September 11th, that was a moment, at least here in the US where everybody got together and everybody was like, it doesn't matter, race, creed, code, it doesn't matter.

We're all Americans here. We're going to get through this. And there was a humanity to it. This is the exact opposite of where we are right now. And I'm wondering if it's going to be an event or just a reset, and if there is a moment that is going to reset that, or if it's just going to take damn fucking hard work from guys like you and hopefully me to push us in that direction, like push positivity out front as opposed to the negativity. The negativity is loud right now, man. It is loud and it is deafening, and it's hard to crack through that noise.

Ralph Barsi (34:03):
Yeah, I wonder the same thing, my friend. I really do. I do think that a lot of it can start just in our own families. The lessons that Charlotte's learning from you and your wife and the lessons that my boys are learning from my wife and me is, I think, where it starts. And I think it's a bottoms-up approach that needs to be taken to really pivot in the right direction.

John Barrows (34:28):
Yeah, I'll say it at the end here, but I always say, "no matter what, go out and make somebody smile today."

If you had a bad day, no matter what, if you made somebody smile, you had a good day.

And that snowballs, right? The gratitude journal, all those things.

And with that, I'm going to keep coming back to the give a shit factor of how we phrase this. One of the areas that I think are really important about the give a shit factor that you brought up is accountability and holding yourself accountable.

I think there's something important, obviously, about having somebody else hold you accountable and sharing your goals and that type of thing. I think that helps without question; but holding yourself accountable is massively important in so many ways.

And you talked about some New Year's resolutions, for instance, that you put together and how you're holding yourself. You want to talk through that a little bit?

(35:13):
I'd love to hear your philosophy on New Year's resolutions. Most of the time, I think they're shit.

It's funny people...I always give the example people in September, they're like, "well, as of January, my New Year's resolution's going to be getting in shape in January, January 1st, I'm going to get after it."

I'm like, "fat ass, why can't you go to the gym right now? Literally, why couldn't you just start working out right now?"

And they're like, "well, it's the holidays." It's like, "shut up. You're just looking."
And then a week after January 1st, they're not at the gym anymore. So let's talk about goal setting. I want to understand your philosophy and approach on goal setting and then stuff like resolutions and then how you hold yourself accountable to those.

Ralph Barsi (35:54):
Sure. Yeah. We'll start with the accountability. So there's a great video clip out there of Mr. Rogers - Fred Rogers. He accepts a lifetime achievement award at the Emmy's back in the nineties.

And he gets on stage and he has everybody close their eyes and be quiet for 10 seconds. And in that ten second clip, he's asking everybody to recall a person in their life who has made tremendous sacrifices for them to get where they are today.

So it could be a parent, it could be a friend, it could be a coworker - somebody who has made a significant sacrifice to help you move forward to where you are.

At the very least, I think we can all agree that we each have one person that has made that type of sacrifice for us. Let's not let them down. Let's hold ourselves accountable to honor the sacrifice that one person made.

(36:55):
Otherwise, you're doing them a disservice. What was the point in them making the sacrifice if you're not going to bring it each day?

So it's that image and it's that speech, in particular, that I typically refer to when I know I need to get my act together and I need to step things up.

And that type of stuff drives goal setting, drives resolutions. I could not agree with you more about doing things in the moment.

Sometimes you need to start right after listening to this episode, in writing down some things you just absolutely must change.

But the famous author and businessman, Brian Tracy, has an incredible quote that is "decide today to be a big success in everything you do."

And he underscores the word decide because, until you actually flip the switch on in your head and make the decision, "You know what? I'm going to be really successful." You're not going to be going to chasing things - instead, of attracting things to you.

So you have to make the decision to have resolutions to hold yourself accountable, to honor those that have gone before you, that have made sacrifices, whether you know them or not, sacrifices have been made so that you can do what you're doing. You think about here in the United States, the troops that have fought for our freedoms, we don't know them all, but we should honor their service.

John Barrows (38:20):
Absolutely.

Ralph Barsi (38:21):
So, it's things like that that kind of get me fired up.

John Barrows (38:25):
And I think that it's interesting because there's the decision factor, but then there's how do you look at, "yeah, I've decided I want to be great."

I think a lot of people tell themselves that, right? I think they say, "oh no, I've decided I want to get in shape." But what's a real decision versus a fake decision? You know what I mean? And how can you tell the difference? What's conviction?

I think habits are great, but really consistency is the key and conviction to do that thing no matter what. "I'm going to be successful. I can decide I want to be successful, but unless I have the conviction to stay the track to be successful."

So how do you go from deciding I want to be successful to executing on that and staying consistent with it?

Ralph Barsi (39:15):
Ooh, wow, big one. Big one. A lame decision is, "you know what? I think I'm going to make sure that I do a load of laundry once a week. I've decided that I'm going to start organizing things around the house."

Whereas a real decision is, "I think I'm going to influence my family tree. I think I'm going to earn enough money in my career from adding value at every turn, enough to influence the paths of my great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren." That's a major decision to make, I think.

And then you asked - the second part of the question was about how you hold yourself accountable to executing it. I do kind of nerdy, geeky stuff, like I'll pin something on my calendar and set a reminder for a month from now, and I will have written a lot in the body of that calendar invite, and it'll pop up in a month, and I'll open it up and it'll say, "Ralph, you said to yourself that you would have A, B, and C done by this point in time. So how good have you been at delivering on those goals? Don't let me down and don't let the future Ralph down three months from now when this next reminder comes.
So, here's bullet point ones specifically write out what have you done as it relates to this specific goal? Here's bullet 2, so on and so forth."

So, I will lean-in upfront and do a lot of heavy lifting to ensure success throughout the year or throughout a given timeframe.

John Barrows (40:59):
Do you share your goals with other people?

Ralph Barsi (41:02):
Yeah, with those super close. My wife knows, and my goals seem ethereal to a lot of people. For instance, right now I'm focused on three things: One is energy level, one is self-talk, and one is consistency. I feel like if I'm on point in all three of those, I'm going to have a positive impact - not only on my life, but the lives of others.

John Barrows (41:27):
Let's unpack self-talk for a second. I'm conscious of it, but I'm an offender, and I say that in a minor way. I have very strong opinions of what I can do and how good I am at those things.

And I try to stay positive, but small little things, the chip away of that. When I walk downstairs and I forget my glass on the third floor, and I'm like, "you fucking idiot." You know what I mean? And I walk upstairs and that little small, "you dumbass," that type of thing, all of those little things build up.

So, how do you look at self-talk, and, I guess, and let's go on the cheesy factor. How cheesy are you with this? And when I say cheesy, I mean that in a positive way of, do you do your daily affirmations? Do you do your self pump up talk, or is it just your conscious of being positive with your self-talk and not negative?

Ralph Barsi (42:29):
Yeah, it's more of the latter. It's more of a stream for me. And I'm also a big journaler, so I use an application called Roam Research; very similar to Evernote and others out there.

But for me, Roam Research is the shit. And I use it for a daily journal, and it greets me every morning with the date, and I'll start to write notes to myself.

So for example, if you left the phone upstairs, instead of saying, "Hey, look, dude, you're an idiot." Instead, I'll say, "we talked about this." You know what I mean? "We can be better than this. We're not supposed to be forgetting the phone," but I'll be easier on myself versus rougher on myself because that's going to come off in my conversations with other people who, to your point, I'm not upset with them per se.

There's issues I'm dealing with personally, and I certainly don't want to come off like that to others. But if that self-talk is pretty prominent in my own head, it's going to come out really quickly. So instead, I'm just a little cooler to myself, but I'm trying to hold myself accountable at the same time.

John Barrows (43:35):
You talked about the Law of Attraction. Do you do that type of stuff? I mean, I'm assuming you believe it. And so I, it's weird how it manifests itself in some cases, but a lot of people have that shit.

I'll break it out right now. I wrote this down that I try to say every day like, "I am right. I am grateful. I'm strong. I'm loved. I'm healthy. I'm going to make it a good day. I'm going to have a positive impact on somebody today. I'm going to make it happen."

So those things I say, and I just say 'em as a quick little every morning, "I'm healthy," "I'm happy." Those type of things.

And I think it makes an impact. It starts off my day in a positive mindset. So what do you proactively have for yourself with self-talk?

Ralph Barsi (44:22):
Yeah, so you and I have talked about this before. I have a coin that, on one side says, "Keep it Real." And on the other side it says, "Keep it Playful."

And, oftentimes, when I'm just kind of not quite sure what tone to set for the day, I'll literally flip that coin. And if it tells me to keep it real, then it's all business: "we're here to do a job, let's get this job done.

I'm definitely going to lead from the front today and lead by example. And I expect out of my leaders as well, and ultimately of my team, same applies to the family.

I want to make sure that we're saying what we said or doing what we said we were going to do, et cetera."

And then the fun part is when it flips to Keep it Playful, I'm just much lighter throughout the day. Today, for example, just based on this conversation, you could tell the coin landed on Keep it Real.

We haven't been too playful today. And that just sets the tone for me and helps me with the self-talk. But similar to what you're doing, I'm constantly writing things down. I've got copious notes in notebooks, Post-It notes, blank typing paper. I just have notes all over the place, kind of talking to myself,

John Barrows (45:31):
And it helps. You sparked an interesting idea for me, which is actually leaving yourself a video in the future. I do this with my daughter. My daughter will say, she'll go, "oh, I love blah, blah, blah, or I wish this." And it's like, okay, will you remember this when this happens? Right? Because the kid, when something happens, they're all like, "I don't want to do this, my homework and dah, dah."

But for instance, when we sit down with Charlotte and we're like, "okay, let's be prepared so that we don't get in a stressful situation, so you don't procrastinate. So every day we're going to do 30 minutes of work here, we're going to do 30. And so by the end of the week, you aren't stressed out when that thing is due, as opposed to waiting until Thursday night." And then guess what happens on Thursday night?

(46:15):
She's like, we're like, "are you prepared for tomorrow? Are you stressed out?" She's like, "no, I'm great." So I'll literally take a video of it and I'll say, "Hey, look, explain to yourself right now how you feel and how proud you are of yourself for getting this done and not stressed out, just through that video."

And so then I hold onto that video, and then the next time she starts getting pissy - "I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that," I'm like, "hold on a second."

And I show her that video, and she's just like, and so it's almost like I could see now doing that to myself, recording a video of myself a month later and saying, "Hey, again, try to be positive talk here. Not dumb ass." Like, "Hey, have you done? Look, when we sat down with ourselves a month ago, you said that you wanted to do this, this, and this. Is that where you are right now? And if you're not, why not?" Right? There's a massive accountability factor there on that one. And I think video could be a great way of doing it.

Ralph Barsi (47:06):
Well, I think the video you're doing with Charlotte is absolutely brilliant, and it also teaches her about discipline, self-discipline, doing what you say you are going to do, so that you have the freedom later and you're less stressed.

For example, I've been recently following a guy named Ali Abdaal, and Ali actually paid an accountability coach for '22. He pays him 300 bucks a month to literally hold him accountable.

So, every two weeks they meet, and the accountability coach pulls out this listing. He's like, "okay, Barrows, you told me you give X to this charity by now, and you were going to add a couple more staff members, and you were going to do this for your customers, in terms of the expansion of your offering, et cetera. Where are you with it? And you're actually paying me to ask you these questions."

So sometimes that works. I mean, I'm in the wrong business. That's something I need to be doing for people. I'll do it for less than 300 bucks, but it's something I've actually nerded-out and considered doing.

I mean, if I have my money on the line, I'm going to do what I say I was going to do. And sometimes it's the smallest things that we're just not doing

John Barrows (48:19):
Well, and I'm looking for a coach right now. I just think I'm open forum here. I never thought that, for instance, I needed a therapist.

So, I've always found myself pretty fortunate that I can take on a lot of stuff without getting stressed out too much. Maybe it's the weed, I don't know, but I've always been able to take on a lot of stress and a lot of burden and not let it affect me too much.

But recently, I've been questioning that because of all the shit that's been going on. Macro, micro, a lot of people know, obviously my dad died last year, and my cousin died, and and the politics, and all that other stuff. And it's just I am looking around to see, maybe I do need somebody to talk to, but I'm looking at it as I need somebody to talk to vent, but I also need somebody to hold me accountable because I don't have too many people to hold me accountable these days as a CEO of the company.

(49:13):
I can kind of do whatever I want to do. You know what I mean? So my wife obviously holds me accountable, but from a business standpoint, or from a life standpoint, or from a health standpoint, there's not a lot of people that hold me accountable for me.

And so, I'm actually looking and having conversations with coaches mainly, yes, to vent and to just make sure that I can, I'm not going crazy here, but mainly to ground me and hold me accountable for getting better. I think that's my goal is always to try to get better. And if I can easily get stuck in neutral, if I'm not paying attention.

Ralph Barsi (49:49):
Well, look, there's a lot of those people out there that can help you. I can certainly put you in touch with some folks who can help you. So, I love that you're talking about it.

Secondly, we've spent most of this conversation talking about accountability, getting after it, execution, reputation, goal setting, et cetera.

Hey, man, sometimes those coaching sessions or those therapy sessions are to be held accountable for pausing for a minute, taking some time to create space in your mind and in your heart, so that you can be the best, and you can come back as a rejuvenated person - whether it's an hour later or a couple days later or a month later.

But that's just as important as, you know, you got to find some respite sometimes. And sometimes that means just pressing the pause button and taking a deep breath. And sometimes we need people to actually interrupt what we're doing to say, "Hey, Barrows, dude, you need to just calm down for a minute." You know what I mean? So sometimes the accountability coaches can help in that respect.

John Barrows (50:56):
Yeah, I think that's interesting. I've always kind of, "oh, I can handle this. I can handle this, I can handle this."

And it's amazing the more you reach out and the more you realize that you don't have to handle everything. There are people that can help. It doesn't have to be a therapist. It can be a friend, it can be a conversation, and it can be an openness to a family member, whatever it might be.

But as soon as you start opening yourself up to vulnerability about where you are, it's pretty impressive how other people react to that and what it does for the psyche and everything else that makes you stay grounded but also motivated. And I think that's what I'm trying to figure out, is how to stay grounded but still motivated to power through this and to force positivity into this world.

(51:44):
I found myself, I think that's probably the thing I'm frustrated with the most right now.

I feel like I'm forcing positivity. There's so much negativity. That's a bummer, and I don't want to feel like it's forced, you know what I mean?

Because I'm writing down my gratitude journal that I never did before. I'm proactively reaching out to somebody every day to say, "Hey, thank you. I just want to let you know I'm thinking about you" type of stuff, because I'm combating all the macro negativity that's happening that I'm trying not to let affect me, and I'm trying to fight it with that.

And that's what I was talking about earlier. It's like it's that finger in the dike type of thing, you know what I mean? Or throwing a pebble into the ocean. It's like, how do we stop the waves of negativity and is it a micro thing? I think right now it has to be, right.

Ralph Barsi (52:33):
Yeah. I think you got to keep your world small. I often talk to the team about playing the long game, but keeping your world small. Just focus on the next few hours. What positive difference can you make in the lives of others or in your own life, just over the next couple hours, then go to the next chunk of hours, et cetera, et cetera, just a little bit at a time.

Don't be so focused...I know we talked about, look, the Ralph Barsi of five years from now, that's definitely healthy to have that long-term vision, but I have to deal with the next 20 minutes just like you do.

And so I have to, again, going back to making the decision, I have to decide how do I want to navigate the rest of this day? There's still time to make a big difference if I want to. And sometimes that means crafting a thoughtful email response to someone who just sent me a message. There's a lot of ways to do it.

John Barrows (53:30):
Yeah. Yes, there are. And I think if you're looking for them, you'll find them. If you're not looking for those positive things, you won't find them a things to do. Right. Exactly.

It is weird how that works. And I'm usually not kind of like a "ooh," that type of thing, but there's been too many examples in my life of stuff that I've said, "you know what? Yes, this is what's happening. I'm going to do this." And holy shit, one thing leads to another.

And it's not because of Facebook's algorithm or Instagram popping me up that ad that's, "oh my God, I can't believe I needed that. I was just thinking about that." That's not what I'm talking about. Even though that's kind of a weird alteration of the manifestation of positivity.

But yeah, man, I think it's just the lens that we look at. I mean, I know you're a Tony Robbins fan, and the "change your state," and the mentality around that type of stuff, but it's real.

And I think a lot of people need that to hear that these days. So hopefully listening to this, they can find their little points of happiness that they can spread out there.

Any last words of wisdom from your perspective that you want the audience to think about, know about, or we'll talk about connecting with you? But last words of wisdom here, based on what you're seeing and where you are in your career and that people can learn from you.

Ralph Barsi (54:50):
Just a reminder of some of the things we talked about: keeping your world small, being mindful of the one person in your life. I'm sure there's more, but of one person that really made sacrifices to help get you where you are today, to honor them, whether they're living or not, and serve the person who you're about to become several years from now and make them proud of what you're doing.

John Barrows (55:18):
Love it. Love it. As always, my friend, I made a commitment this year because we revamped the podcast and I took a little bit of a hiatus and a break there, but I made a point this year to only have people on the podcast who I feel are positive influences on the world and people I personally get energy from and give me positive energy.

And without question, Mr. Barsi, you are one of them. So I genuinely appreciate our friendship and everything else related to it.

Ralph Barsi (55:50):
The feelings mutual, my friend. That means a lot to me, and I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

John Barrows (55:56):
Of course. And just, I mean, where's the best place to connect with you? Is it on LinkedIn, is it, where is it?

Ralph Barsi (56:02):
Yeah, all of the above. Best place today is ralphbarsi.com. Would love to have you subscribe and say hello to me. I get back to every single person that emails me. You could find me on LinkedIn at in/ralphbarsi. You could follow me on Twitter - @rbarsi.

John Barrows (56:18):
Love it. And for everybody listening, that's B-A-R-S-I. You'll find a nice, clean-shaven head like myself, and spreading positivity all over the place and having some fun doing it.

So Ralph, thanks again for coming on board. And everybody, I hope you enjoyed the conversation. I hope you got you to think of things a little bit differently. And I'm going to say it again. I said it earlier -

No matter what you do today, go out and make somebody smile, because no matter how bad your day went, if you make somebody smile today, you know, had a good day in the world, needs a lot more of that.

So thank you all much, and I'll see you on the other side and make it happen. Cheers.

(56:54):
Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did with your support and our incredible guests.

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Thanks again and have a great day.