🎙️Transcript: The GTM Podcast
The GTM Podcast
"Winning with Systems and Relationships in Sales Leadership"
Scott Barker, Ralph Barsi
July 23, 2024
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Scott Barker:
Hello and welcome back to the GTM podcast. Appreciate you, as always, lending us your eardrums for the next hour.
There's a million places you can go to level up your professional and personal lives, so we don't take it lightly that you're rocking with us.
And I am always excited for our guests, but I gotta say I'm extra excited today. I get to hang out with a dear friend, I get to catch up with him, and there was extra sort of lead up to this because we rescheduled, what was it, Ralph?
Like at least six times. And I think I was responsible for three. I think you were responsible for the other three.
Ralph Barsi:
Yeah, I was going to say eight.
Scott Barker:
Yeah.
Ralph Barsi:
It's pretty bad.
Scott Barker:
We made it happen.
Ralph Barsi:
We're here.
Scott Barker:
We did it. We did it. Well, I am joined by Ralph Barsi. Ralph, official welcome to the GTM pod. Excited to have you, man.
Ralph Barsi:
Yeah, thank you, Scott. Scott, it's great to be here.
Scott Barker:
I'm pumped. And so I've known Ralph for a long time now.
I think we originally met probably in 2017, back in the Sales Hacker days, and then kind of carried through with Max and Manny at Outreach and our mutual friend, Becc Holland.
We did some stuff in that crazy Flip the Script Tour. I don't know if people know, but I lived on a tour bus for three weeks with a bunch of sales leaders. It was fucking wild.
Ralph Barsi:
How many cities did you hit on that tour?
Scott Barker:
Think it was like eight cities, um, was so so crazy I don't think I could pull that off anymore, uh, but it was fun.
Ralph Barsi:
Very rock star. I like that.
Scott Barker:
Yeah it was actually Collective Soul's tour bus. It was like a rock star's tour bus that's awesome crazy.
And we got to hang out somewhat recently down in San Francisco at the Crosslink-Alpha Network dinner, which was super fun.
But man, where to start? Obviously, a lot of folks know Ralph Barsi. You've kind of become, I would say, an icon in kind of sales and the go-to-market space.
And I know right now, I'll do kind of a quick bio for listeners who maybe aren't familiar uh with you and your work currently the VP of Sales at Kahua, which is a leading construction management platform.
Uh, prior to that, you led global sales development organizations both at Tray.io and ServiceNow, um, and then before ServiceNow you were running field ops at Achievers, which was acquired by Blackhawk, and also InsideView, which was acquired by DemandBase, which is super cool.
How are you liking the new gig? You've been there now, how long has it been?
Ralph Barsi:
About 14 months. Loving it. What a special place.
Scott Barker:
Hell yeah. Where does the name come from? Kahua, sounds Hawaiian.
Ralph Barsi:
It is Hawaiian. Aloha! It's a Hawaiian name for "platform."
And what's funny is, that's kind of the only thing that's Hawaiian about the company. The company is based in Atlanta. And the name, and maybe a few conference room names, represent the islands. But you got to love the vibe.
Scott Barker:
Salesforce kind of adopted it. It's got good vibes, good culture. I like it.
Ralph Barsi:
That's right, the "Ohana."
Scott Barker:
Yeah, the Ohana, baby. So, I want to talk to you about a few things, and there's a million different directions we can go.
But I know that you, throughout your whole career, have been really, and it's something I appreciate about you, is you're very systems-driven and process-driven.
And I think as revenue leaders and as individual contributors on teams, we're asked a lot and we have big, audacious, crazy goals and those can loom in our minds.
And many times we can forget about the inputs and the systems that are actually going to get there. And I think anyone who's worked with you and for you appreciates the fact that you're kind of systems over everything.
And so before we get into kind of story time, I would love to hear some of the systems that you use that have driven success for you over the years.
Ralph Barsi:
Yeah, well, thank you, Scott. And thanks for such a kind intro. I really appreciate it. It's great to be here.
Yeah. I'm a big systems guy for a couple reasons. I don't like it when things slip through the cracks because I wasn't paying attention.
Ralph Barsi:
I don't like, for example, waking up in the morning and finding out that one of our prospects went with a competitor of ours and we had no idea that they were even evaluating an offering like ours.
So when you employ systems, that paranoia tends tends to get quelled a bit. And you start to calm down and you start to feel like you're in control of the situation more often than not.
So I'm a huge fan of systems and processes and recipes and formulas, not just at work, but in life. But specifically at work.
I remember years ago - you mentioned Achievers - so, back like 2013, 2014, I read a quote from the cartoonist Scott Adams, who did the cartoon "Dilbert."
And he also wrote a blog. And in one of his blog articles, he said that "Losers have goals and winners have systems."
And that quote resonated big time with me. Now, I don't necessarily subscribe to the fact that you're a loser if you have goals.
But I'm a huge fan of the latter part of that quote, because I do believe winners apply systems to everything that they do.
So I have worked really hard to make sure that while I might stay productively paranoid, I'm never really freaking out because I can lean on my systems.
So happy to share examples. I'm glad you brought it up. It's a great topic.
Scott Barker:
Yeah, let's do it. Let's dive right in. I mean, I love that quote off the get-go. So "Losers have goals, winners have systems."
That's something took me a while personally to learn that one. The way I personally operate, is unique, I would say, as when I was a seller myself and more of like an IC.
But then as I started building teams and had to teach what I was doing, I had to start codifying what was working. And so for me, that's how I kind of learned more systems and process.
And now in my day-to-day, it's more about systems. But it did take me a long time to learn that one.
Ralph Barsi:
Yeah. And also, my career has centered on sales for three decades.
And if you're talking just about sales, you think about all the methodologies out there and all the ways of doing things in an orderly fashion just to make sure that the right questions are asked at the right time, that you're mitigating risk, that you can forecast accurately, etc.
So it's embedded in my brain. But I've also read works from economists like Edwards Deming.
He was alive and well in the 30s, 30s and 40s. And a great quote that he's known for saying is that "Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets."
And I mean, that's true. If you're frustrated at work or in life with maybe a lack of results, or they're not as exciting as you thought they would be, it's as simple as just line checking your system or your process.
What steps are you following consistently to produce those results repeatedly, predictably? And I think you'll find if you do some of that diagnosis that it's just a small tweak that needs to be made maybe early in the process or middle of the process.
Maybe you're not enlisting help or other stakeholders to shine light on areas you're not thinking about. And you're going to get there.
But if you look at it that way and look at it as almost like an assembly line and a system and a process or like a crank on a bicycle, it's easier to handle a lot of things at work.
And when you're running a big organization, for example, there's a lot of what I call, you're spinning a lot of plates. And you don't want any of those plates to fall and come crashing down.
So you employ these systems to ensure that things operate smoothly and efficiently and you get those repeated results that I talked about. out.
And it also comes down to just even having a conversation, whether it's with you here on a podcast episode, or if I'm speaking with a prospect or an executive leadership team.
I follow little mental maps when I'm articulating an idea or trying to strategize about where we need to be at this time next year, etc. And I follow little formulas.
A couple of them that come to mind include the consultant world talks a lot about the acronym SCQA.
And that's a simple formula that stands for Situation, Challenge, Question, and Answer. So a pretty simple scenario could be, okay, so this is the size of our team.
This is our charter. these are our targets, but we've got a challenge and the challenge is we don't have enough people on the team.
And so we've asked ourselves, how are we going to go about getting not just people to fill seats on this team to address all the things that we have, but the right people?
And so a couple of ways we're thinking about addressing the question is A, B, C, D.
And when you articulate it that way, knowing the SCQA framework, it's blatant, it's obvious: the mind map that you're following when you're articulating that idea.
But when you don't know it, you're really coming off as articulate, intelligent, a critical thinker, to an audience large or small.
So that's an example of a really good framework that I and my teams have used continuously with talk tracks.
And lastly, there's PAR, like in golf. I love to play golf. So this one I lean on all the time. And it's PAR: Problem, Action, Result.
And again, if you're talking about maybe a case study to a prospect or testimonial, you're requesting a testimonial maybe from an existing customer, you're going to always want to start with, well, what was the problem you were looking to resolve in your organization? And then we parachuted in, we partnered together.
And now as a result, this has happened, this has happened, and this has happened. And now you're able to do this.
That all comes from the PAR mind map. So those are examples of just a couple systems and processes that I'm using all the time.
Scott Barker:
I love those. Those are great.
Do you have any, because I get this question all the time from founders when they're either fundraising or they're redoing their demo deck, any frameworks or things you can share around how to articulate the overall company mission and goals in a slide deck?
Because that can be tough. I see a lot of, unfortunately, not very good ones.
Ralph Barsi:
Great question. You can follow similar tracks to what I just talked about. But the bottom line, Scott, is that you have to put the bottom line up front.
So BLUF is the acronym we use for that. And it's effective not just in pitch deck and founder discussions, but it's great in emails too.
And just communications of any kind. Tell us what the point is. What's the problem? What's the action? Or what's the impact of doing work with you or buying our software or partnering with us? What effort is it going to take? And how long is it going to take?
So another acronym is P-I-E-T. What's the Problem? What's the Impact of doing it this way? What kind of Effort are are we talking about investing?
And then how fast can we get stuff done? So that's a super effective framework as well.
But when you know them, when you know even three or four different frameworks, you start to see them everywhere, number one, and you start to seek them as well.
You want to learn more and more and gobble them up because it just makes things a little easier.
Scott Barker:
P-I-E-T. All right. That was Problem, Impact, Effort, Timeline. I like it. I like it. Yeah.
And you'll do that in everything from articulating Kahua to a new customer, to how you're communicating with the board, how you're communicating a new idea to, your team that's rolling out, just across the board.
Ralph Barsi:
Correct. Even if... Like all organizations, we are always looking to attract and retain top talent. And when you're having an interview with someone who truly is top talent, it could be intimidating.
They're paid really well. They have incredible rapport in the industry or in the work that they do. And you want to attract them to your team.
And so when you can speak in terms of frameworks, when you can articulate to them, maybe in a late stage interview, how we frame up strategy quarter over quarter or year over year, you tend to attract those A players because they, too, are looking for methodology...or environments, rather, that are using methodologies and systems and processes.
Winners want to go to winning teams. They don't want to go to losing teams that are really trying to figure it out.
They want to go where things are buttoned up and things are streamlined. And they want to go to a place where they can make a contribution and really move the needle and do even better in their own right and in their own career.
So when leaders are interviewing and you're also exposing some of the frameworks that you use even in day-to-day conversation, that's attractive and that's appealing to the top talent. it.
Scott Barker:
It's something that is almost so simple, but sometimes overlooked when we over-engineer these sales processes.
Really, it's our job to be hyper-effective communicators. And we have to communicate ideas broadly at scale to customers, prospects, team members. How do you take these frameworks that you have and then deliver a message at scale?
Ralph Barsi:
First thing is, oftentimes, I'll share what the framework is with the leaders. Because to do things at scale, you're going to need to lean on the hierarchy of your organization.
And you're going to need to make sure that the top line is in the know of what the message is or what the mission is.
And if you can also share maybe the framework of how you're thinking about things, they can articulate it across the organization, or they can cascade a message throughout the teams.
And you know, they're not really going to miss a beat because they have grasped how you've come up with the mission.
So a great exercise that I learned during my service nowadays was a simple strategy slide that looked like a flowchart.
And at the top, you would start with with the answer, kind of where you envision your team being one year from now or six months from now. And that answer was a SMART goal. It was strategic, measurable, actionable, relevant, timely. So it was specific.
And then beneath that answer box, you've got three, maybe five key initiatives that are going to inform the answer.
Maybe we need to hire x number of people by this date. Maybe we need to... If we're trying to generate pipeline or new deals, maybe we need to ensure no stone goes unturned and we start resorting back to closed loss deals or dormant leads, etc. Maybe that's initiative two, so on and so forth.
That's... Would represent Row Two in that flowchart. Row Three would be your KPIs and your metrics. I always talk about, you can't win unless you keep score. And so that's what KPIs are all about.
And you already know another framework is if you're going to publish a KPI, it should have a dollar sign in it, it should have a number sign in it, or it should have a percentage sign in it. That way you're showing how things are going from x to y in the timeframe that you've established.
And then the final row, so to speak, of this strategy flowchart is what needs or asks are there of the business?
And so if I'm able to share that with a leadership team that might represent my direct reports, and I need them to cascade a message like that to their extended directs and my extended directs, I know that they're going to get it right.
And it also comes down to the granular stuff, Scott, of a lot of rep and SDRs and even leaders, frankly, they struggle.
Why? Because we're all human and we all go through rough patches and they have a tough time. But if you're not communicating what your challenges are, what highlights there are, or many successes, and where you might need help, it's not going to happen.
The help's not going to arrive. But if you can articulate to people kind of what you're running into, why you think it's a problem, what you're doing about it, what you've already tried doing, and what others think, and what advice or guidance they can give, you're going to go pretty far because you're showing some vulnerability and you're showing the effort that you're taking to lead your teams and your people.
And you're doing it intelligently by presenting it in the way of a framework.
Scott Barker:
I mean, these are all gold for any aspiring leaders listening to this podcast. Maybe you're trying to make that jump from IC to manager, manager, director, director to VP.
These frameworks are going to help you stand out and get your message across. So frameworks process are all fantastic. Fantastic.
I'd love to push you to pull this into the real world a little bit. What was the hardest message that you've had to deliver in your career?
Ralph Barsi:
Whoa. Hardest message I've had to deliver? It's when there's been a reorg, or a Reduction in Force, a RIF. Or on an individual level, when I've had to part ways with someone. That has always been the toughest.
I don't know what would be tougher. But that's up there. That's a really tough one.
And so, yeah, frameworks in that respect don't necessarily go out the window, but there is still a format that I want to tether myself to so that I know I'm not going to miss what's most important about the message.
So in that, gosh, I guess as an example, just a three bullet point example of that would be, hey, Scott, this is not easy news to deliver, but this is what's going on. Boom. Here's why it's happening.
Here's what's going to happen next. What questions can I address? I think a lot of leaders get wrapped up in those types of conversations with the person.
Scott Barker, you mentioned at the beginning of our talk here, you and I have known each other for some time. Delivering news like that to you, if you and I work together, would be very, very difficult.
Because you're a friend of mine, I know you, I've worked with you in some capacity. So that's difficult. And a lot of leaders... Start with that.
They default to, well, I know Scott. He's a good guy. This is just a tough situation.
And they get so caught up in the person that they're talking to that they lose sight of the message that is supposed to be delivered.
And so this is where it's really important to detach yourself from that emotional part of it and the person that you're talking to.
And I'm not saying be robotic or be stiff, but be direct, be kind, be articulate, be of service and of help, be empathetic, but deliver the message. Get to the outcome that we're all trying to get to.
Scott Barker:
Yeah. People appreciate that so much. I think the only thing worse than being on the receiving end of bad news is being on the receiving end of bad news that's communicated poorly, that leaves you with more questions than answers.
And again, going back to these frameworks, they help you make sure that you're hitting on these key points.
Ralph Barsi:
That's a really good point, Scott. And you and I have been around to see when big company messages get published on YouTube.
And they're now in the public forum, and we're all seeing how the message is delivered to employees or to the organization at large.
And it breaks my heart, but sometimes you see why the company is in the situation it's in. When you hear poor leaders deliver the message the wrong way, you just... You don't even want to lift the lid on that pot on the stove.
You don't even want to know what a weekly one-on-one might look like, or what a team meeting might sound like, or whether or not they do a sales kickoff in the sales world.
We talked about strategy and framing up what a strategy can look like for a year and then making sure you're conveying that message and that mission to the team. And when you hear from these types of leaders, it's frightening.
But it's also very evident as to why the company might be in the position they're in. So pay attention to that kind of stuff and take note of it.
And for the listeners who don't implement processes, think about that kind of stuff and think about what processes do you think, as simple as you can get them, you can start implementing to help you be that leader that you want to work for.
Scott Barker:
Great call to action to the listeners and the leaders that are with us. Ralph, I want to switch gears a little bit.
So listeners love stories and sharing impactful stories from your career. And we were talking before this, and it's actually really cool how you ended up at Kahua.
Kahua would love for you to take us into a time machine and bring us back to how this all transpired because it's a cool story.
Ralph Barsi:
I love it. Thanks for asking. I started with Kahua in April of 2023 as the VP of Sales. And Kahua is the third company that the two founders founders, and their team founded over the last 25 plus years.
The first company they started was also in the construction space. And that company was acquired by Autodesk.
And shortly after that acquisition, they started a second company called Compliance360 that sold a risk management management platform to healthcare systems and insurance companies.
And I was hired by Compliance360 in 2007. I was an individual contributor for them. They were an Atlanta-based company. I was based in Northern California. So I oversaw the Western United States and sold software to healthcare systems.
Learned a ton at Compliance360. I really felt like, in a healthy way, at least in retrospect, there was a constant fire lit under me to hustle, to learn, to apply what I learned, to always stay in motion because opportunity faces those of us in motion.
So I learned a ton in the time that I was at Compliance360 as an account executive. And I sold alongside a rockstar, A-player account executive who was based on the east coast selling only to insurance.
Ralph Barsi:
I ended up leaving the company. I had visions of grandeur. I was not optimizing my work as an individual contributor and wanted to lead people.
And I wanted to lead people at scale. And I wanted global experience. And I left the company and I went to another company to get that experience.
It was a great move. But I'm bummed that I didn't stay at Compliance360 as well.
So the good news about this, and to make a long story short, is I kept in touch with that rock star AE. And I kept in touch with my old boss and a lot of people at Compliance360.
And that company ended up getting acquired as well. And the third company that the founder started was Kahua.
So fast forward 15 years, and I went on to work for a couple other companies. You mentioned them at the beginning of our conversation. But all the while, Scott, I was keeping in touch with everybody. I was pinging them on their birthday.
Whenever I was in Atlanta for a conference or meeting, I would make sure I let them know a couple days ahead of time and we'd all go to dinner. We would share holiday cards.
I got to watch their families grow up from afar and vice versa. We just stayed in really good touch. And I was invited in early 2023 to serve as the keynote speaker at Kahua's sales kickoff, because that rockstar AE on the east coast was now their CRO.
So he knew of some of the speaking engagements I've done. And I had just left Tray.io in San Francisco and was serving as the keynote speaker at Kahua.
And lo and behold, this opportunity surfaced where they were looking for a VP of Sales to oversee solutions consultants, consultant sales and sales development.
And the stars aligned.
And I was extended the offer to join the Kahua team. And it was serendipitous. It was incredible that it all happened to be reunited with a cohort of people that had gone from Compliance360 to Kahua as well as my CRO.
And here I am today. And you can't beat that kind of stuff when it happens to you in your career.
Scott Barker:
Yeah, I mean, I love that. And now the compounding effects, too, that happen, I often say, I think it's a Naval quote, but playing long-term games with long-term people, you joining Kahua with already this knowledge of how some of these folks operate and having worked closely with the now CRO, you can jump in and that time spent figuring people out, how they communicate, et cetera, you don't have to waste time. You can just dive right in and start producing, which is huge.
What did you kind of learn from that experience? Because it's interesting.
One of the red threads in this podcast to a lot of really successful executives is, go to a lot of different companies, but oftentimes there's a boss or a CEO or a founder or a group of people that kind of keep surfacing again and again.
And it sounds like that's happened here. So what's, I guess, the takeaway or the learning from this?
Ralph Barsi:
There's a lot of learnings, but the key one is, you already mentioned it, it is to play the long game. What was the latter part of that Naval quote?
Scott Barker:
"Play long-term games with long-term people."
Ralph Barsi:
With long-term people. That's awesome. And I also like, "Play the long game, but keep your world small." Something like that.
Anyway, that's what I learned. I also learned that you're never really leaving... It's okay to leave the company, but you don't have to leave the people.
You can always be in touch with the people as long as you're contributing, giving back, serving them, as I've mentioned before.
Don't just consume and wait for them to reach out to you and just benefit from being their friend. Let them be a beneficiary of being your friend too.
Put in the work when it comes to relationships. Other things I learned, as I mentioned, is just the clip at which the Compliance360 crew operated.
They carried it into Kahua and they just continue to go up and to the right. And those are the types of people I like to hang out with.
And so it was a no-brainer for me to come over here and make contributions and help them get where they're trying to go.
Scott Barker:
So I have a selfish question for you because I think you're great at this. And I think I've been on the receiving end of some really thoughtful notes and you always follow up when you're at events.
Going back to systems and process, do you have a system that you have for keeping up with people? I find it difficult as the network is ever expanding.
And I really do try and be thoughtful when I can. But I think you're pretty world-class at it. So is there a system behind the scenes?
Ralph Barsi:
You're a good man. Yes, I do have a system. I have a pretty rich, robust contact database that I keep and that I update and that I prune as well.
Uh, but I also have a reminder on my calendar and it, uh, pops up, uh, the last day of every month and it says, check in with these people. And I open up the reminder and I have a host of names in that calendar reminder.
There's probably 150 different names that pop up just to make sure that I'm keeping them in mind. And, uh... I don't necessarily classify people, but there is a way that I would categorize them.
There are some that hear from me once a year. There are some that hear from me once a quarter, some that hear from me much more frequently.
And I make it a point to get in touch with people and keep in touch with people. Birthdays is just a layup. That's an easy one.
More people love hearing from people on their birthday, then don't. I can list them on one hand, some of the people who just can't stand the whole birthday message.
And they've told me. And so I've never wished them a happy birthday again. But yeah, I absolutely operate from a system when it comes to even contacts and people.
So if I were to go into my Google Contacts right now and pull up your contacts, Scott, It's got your updated profile pic. I have a label as to how we know each other.
Any little things I've picked up that you've put down over the years about yourself, about your personality, about things you like or don't like, I've likely written them down in your contact record.
Just so I'm aware of when I'm with you, how to talk to you. Some people I can ask about that I know are very dear to you. It just brings me joy to bring others joy. away.
Scott Barker:
That's huge. I mean, any seller or anyone beginning their career or even later in their career, stealing that is huge. That's something I've aspired to do and I haven't actually done it.
So maybe this would be the catalyst to do that is create a Scott Barker CRM a little bit on the side that's totally different than the goals of maybe the fund or what you're working on. It's the long game, but that's awesome.
So I want to go to a listener question. And I think this question is perfect for you. And I'm excited to get your answer. And thank you, everyone who always sends in questions.
You can send them to questions at gtmfund.com. You get a ton of good ones. But this one is great. So the question is, we have some reps who have been with us for years, and the selling environment is harder than it's ever been.
I think a lot of people can resonate with that. It's been a bit demoralizing to them and it feels like their attitude is now carrying over to our new reps as well. Any suggestions on how to nip this in the bud?
Ralph Barsi:
Oh Lord, absolutely. So, one of the key attributes and characteristics of what I call A players is attitude. You have two choices.
You can walk into a room and light that place up. And it doesn't necessarily mean you need to be gregarious and outgoing and, Hey, everybody, what's going on? Because not everybody has that personality.
But if you can light up that room with your presence, your attention, again, your contributions, contributions, that goes such a long way in impacting others around you. You're always setting an example, whether you like it or not.
So set a great example. Or you can take path two, and that is just suck the life out of a room when you walk into it. Be that rain cloud. Be the one that no one is excited to work with.
And then wonder later down the line why A, you're lonely, and B, you don't get the results that you want to get. And nobody's calling you on your birthday, because you are that person.
And I hate to say it, but it's tougher to be the former. It's actually tougher to be the one that lights up a room when they walk in, is present, is listening.
So I guess my question would be to those reps who are having a tough time right now because they've been around the block, the market ebbs and flows, it's not always fun, is to think about who it is that you're becoming while you're at work versus just going to work.
Think about the example that you're setting. And I don't know, if you can positively impact just one person each day in your work environment, just work at that.
Don't try to boil the ocean here, but you can make a pivot in a good, good way, and it'll have systemic impact that'll last for years. So be that person.
Scott Barker:
Be that person. I got a note on my phone that says, find the light in everything. I find if you're out there and you're looking for the light, you will naturally become that light to those around you.
Ralph Barsi:
Like attracts like as well. So shed light and know that like attracts like.
Scott Barker:
Totally, totally. Great, great advice. And then going a step further, so that's speaking directly to the sellers.
This question, I'm assuming was from their CEO or maybe their VP of Sales. As a leader, have you found ways to... Shift thinking when people are maybe in a funk or not seeing the light?
Ralph Barsi:
Absolutely. So I learned this years ago, Scott. I had the pleasure of seeing Tony Robbins live. I went to one of his four-day seminars.
And he did a whole section on focus. And he said to the audience, look, you're not thinking about your left earlobe, until right now. And it's only because I brought it up.
But that is how quickly you can shift your focus. So if you're in a funk and you're living in the past and you're all bummed out, you can actually make the change in a nanosecond and, oh, well, that's over.
We're here. We're here and now. Let's make great decisions moving forward. Very small, great decisions over and over and over again. And we're going to be pretty amazed at where we go.
And I would also encourage people people who are listening, to chronicle your work. You're doing great work. You might not be doing 100% great work, but the work you're doing, there's a lot of greatness that's coming from it.
So chronicle what it is that you're doing so that you can create a nice document for yourself. You don't have to show anybody this document, but you can refer to it to remind yourself that you are capable, you can do this, you can move things forward in a good way.
And then it also serves as a great single source of truth if you are finding yourself on the brink of getting promoted, or you might be interviewing for a much better gig than the one you're in.
And you want to be able to show that document or that what I call trail of breadcrumbs of all the good work that you've been doing over the last several quarters or years.
And you'll have so much fun talking about it because you lived it and you wrote it down and you chronicled it. And you get a chance to teach others how you got there.
And you can also include the lowlights because then you can shed light and teach others on how you made it through those lowlights and how you made it through those rough times.
People love hearing about the comeback story and you're going to get to talk about it freely because you've been writing about it this whole time.
Scott Barker:
Super good tactical advice. So I have a folder on my desktop called the champion folder. And I wonder if I heard you speak about this way back in the day, because I don't know where I got it from.
I don't think I just came up with it, but I've been using that since 2016. And I look at it all the time when I'm feeling down or lack of motivation.
It's just full of screenshots of happy customers or happy LPs or happy founders, whatever it is. And it certainly gives me a lot of motivation to keep going.
Ralph Barsi:
You know, I'm glad you said that, Scott. And you bring up a good point.
When you include accolades that you've gotten from other people, if you can make that document less about you and more about how you have served others or made a good impact on others' organizations, I mean, that's pure gold right there. So lean towards that.
Scott Barker:
Totally. Totally. I think it's all about kind of just finding ways to stay in the present. You know, going back to this question, you know, and it's all around these reps, they seem to be stuck in the past, right?
They're like, hey, the selling environment used to be easier and now it's tougher. And so they're depressed about the past or they're anxious about the future. And the more as leaders, we can pull people into that present moment.
It's pretty tough to be depressed or anxious when you're actually in the moment, you know?
Ralph Barsi:
It's very tough to be depressed when you're in the moment. When you're present, it's tough to be angry.
There's so many different lessons that can come from this. I'm glad you brought this question up. It's awesome.
Scott Barker:
Great question and good luck. Hopefully, you can get them to see the light.
Ralph Barsi:
You know what else? I'll go out on a limb here. Maybe we'll cover how to contact me at the end of the episode here.
If somebody wants to DM me what's going on, and I can carve out five minutes of my day, I'm happy to serve as a sounding board. I might be able to help you out, help get you back on track.
But people like me are out here. And there's more of us than I think you are thinking about or are aware of. And yeah, let me know. And if I can't help you, I probably know somebody who can.
Scott Barker:
Hell yeah. Well, whoever asked that question, run, don't walk, and take Ralph up on that. What is the best way? LinkedIn, best way to get in touch with you?
Ralph Barsi:
Sure. A couple of ways. LinkedIn, my name is Ralph Barsi, and it's just forward slash Ralph Barsi (in/ralphbarsi). That's the URL to find my profile.
On Twitter, X, it's @rbarsi. And I have a blog, It's ralphbarcy.com. And you can reach me in any of those areas. That's where I'm at. Or rbarsi@kahua.com.
Scott Barker:
Perfect, perfect. All right, I have two final questions for you. And I keep these the same intentionally for all of our guests.
So you can take it anywhere you want. And the first question is, what is one tactic or strategy that is widely believed to be true by revenue leaders that you think is bullshit or at least no longer serving us?
Ralph Barsi:
Well, we talked earlier about attracting people top talent. I think that's a strategy and tactic that a lot of leaders are hasty with. They're often in a rush to hire because there's a headcount plan that must be met.
And unfortunately, they don't measure twice and cut once. They just go for the first candidate that answers questions a decent way. And those leaders get happy ears.
That's what we call them in sales. And oftentimes, that employee starts with the company and maybe a week or two later decides to leave because they got a more attractive offer. So they were never really dedicated or committed to joining your team in the first place. And on and on.
What happens is you end up hurting the organization more in the long run, because you made that hasty, short-term decision versus really thinking through and leaning into the recruiting and hiring process.
So there are a couple tactics that I could share with people offline on how to fine-tune that recruiting and hiring process.
Scott Barker:
So that's one, since we started the fund, because we're a lean, scrappy team, you really, really see the impact of every hire that we make.
And I think I'll go as far as saying, I don't think I'll ever... Hire someone who's not a, like a 10x human, you know, you see, we, we were, we got lucky with Paul Irving and we have known since, you know, we were, we were kids and he's just 10x and then Sophie, 10x.
And you see like the impact is, is insane. And it's, I think I would rather leave a rec open for 18 months, uh, instead of, you know, just getting a button seat. Cause the, it's worth it. It's worth it.
Ralph Barsi:
That's an understatement. Yeah. And I can attest to Paul and Sophie's credibility and rapport. They're both outstanding.
And it's definitely worth the effort to attract people who are smarter than you, who see things a little differently, who really think critically and creatively about where the organization can go versus where it is today.
Really, they have that vision of the future state, not only for the team, but for themselves. And so they're inspired. They feel pulled towards their goals.
Those are the people that you want to hang with, no question. And those are the people you want to build a business with.
Scott Barker:
Totally. And you said it earlier, like attracts like. So it does start snowballing and there's a compounding effect that happens as you get a handful of 10x people, then all of a sudden, everyone who is trying to get on board also fits that makeup.
Ralph Barsi:
On that note, Scott, one other tactic I think is bullshit is leaders thinking they can attract top talent, yet they haven't put themselves out there.
So that top talent doesn't even know about this leader. They're going to go work for this coach and this leader, so to speak. And if they don't know anything about her or him, it's going to be an uphill climb in getting that person to join your team.
So it's another note to encourage leaders to go ahead and get out there and start making contributions to what we're doing here in the industry and let us hear from you. You've got these unique strengths and gifts that only you have.
And if you're keeping them close to the vest, we're not going to learn from you, let alone know about you enough to come work for you. Amen.
Scott Barker:
Amen. I think there's still this attitude sometimes with revenue leaders. They're like, I don't want to be posting on LinkedIn. I don't want to do podcasts.
I operate. That's what I do. I get results. And that's great. Yeah. You and I don't do things like this to become LinkedIn famous. That's not the point.
We're doing this to showcase who we are, what we're about, and then they become beacons for interesting problems and interesting people to find us.
And I think that's the shift that people have to make. And I think as leaders, table six now. All the portfolio companies we have that are having no problem hiring.
It's because their CEO or founder or their VP of Sales or someone is highly visible and shares their ideas and thoughts. And then the best seek them up.
Ralph Barsi:
100%. And my hat's off to the practitioners out there that don't want to get on LinkedIn, that's fine. But if that's the play you're going to choose, then be so good that you can't be ignored.
That everybody that works for you and with you talks about you. And via grassroots roots effort, you're going to get the top talent that way too.
Scott Barker:
Yeah, totally. Not one size fits all approach, but arguably the putting your head down and doing exceptional work every single day and then hope people talk about you, it might actually be harder than spending the time just articulating it online.
But okay, final question, then we'll wrap up.
Everyone's looking for silver bullets. It is a tougher time out there. I know you guys are crushing it at Kahua.
What's one tactic or strategy that's working for you right now?
Ralph Barsi:
Oh, that's an easy one. So I mentioned Tony Robbins earlier. Another great quote from him is there's power in proximity. So get close and get to know each other.
We have a weekly Friday meeting every morning, 7am Pacific to 8am Pacific. Again, my company's based in Atlanta, but it is for the entire revenue organization, which includes marketing and customer success and sales.
And we follow formulas and recipes every Friday on that weekly revenue call. It's a mandatory call. Everybody attends.
And everybody has their finger on the pulse of what our pipeline looks like, what our late stage pipeline looks like, what new deals have come in, and what the win reports are of those deals.
Marketing campaigns that are being executed in the field, etc, etc, goes on and on. But if we weren't meeting frequently and meeting together to hear what's going on around the organization.
We'd all think we know where North is and we'd all have our own version of North, but we'd all be in every direction. But at our company, I'm partial, of course, but we all know which way North is and we are collectively headed there together.
Scott Barker:
Huge. Getting everyone, steering the ships in the same direction. And I think the best way to do that is just full transparency, like you said, of here's exactly where we're at. Here's exactly where we're going.
I know at Outreach back in the day, that was a super helpful meeting. We also did a big deal review call sometimes on those meetings, which was super helpful too, because everyone got to see the inner workings of how we were actually winning deals, which was helpful.
Ralph Barsi:
Outstanding. And I'll take it one step further. And that is there's a great company out there called Levels. And it's run by a guy named Sam Corcos, who did a great interview, by the way, on the Tim Ferriss podcast, where he talked about...
They actually publish their weekly meetings as a team and as a company. You could just look up Levels Health on YouTube and you'll see all their weekly meetings as a team.
That's next level. I mean, no pun intended.
So that is how you communicate at scale. To go back to one of your earlier questions, you got to make sure... And it also is how you chronicle your work and document all the things that your organization is working on and leave that trail of breadcrumbs behind for new hires to come in.
They can take a look at all those videos and have a very clear understanding of what the mission is and how they can make a contribution to it.
Scott Barker:
Love that. That's a perfect place to wrap up, my friend. Ralph, this has been super fun. Thank you, man. I appreciate you coming on.
Ralph Barsi:
Right on, Scott. Thanks. So good to be here.
Scott Barker:
Beautiful. Well, go connect with Ralph on LinkedIn, X, follow his blog, and all of our listeners. Appreciate you rocking with us.
I say it every week, but listening's only part of the battle.
You got to go and implement and execute these ideas. So hopefully we gave you some frameworks and processes that you can bring into your organization, and we'll see you all next week.