🎙️ Transcript: Inside Sales Studio with Bob Perkins

Inside Sales Studio
Bob Perkins, Ralph Barsi
March 2, 2016

Bob Perkins (00:09):
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Inside Sales Studio. I'm Bob Perkins, the founder and chairman of the AA-ISP.

It's great to be with you today. I have the pleasure of having Ralph Barsi with us. Ralph is the Senior Director of Global Sales Development at ServiceNow. And Ralph, it's great you're with us. Thanks for taking a few minutes to join us on the Inside Sales Studio today.

Ralph Barsi (00:35):
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Bob.

Bob Perkins (00:39):
Ralph, you have 15-plus years in sales leadership. You're a true practitioner. You also have been very involved in the AA-ISP for five or six years now, and I know you've been to many of the conferences and have done some presentations there.

But why don't you give the viewers, that may not be familiar with you, a little bit about your background and also your participation in the association.

Ralph Barsi (01:02):
Sure, my pleasure. So I've been in sales, I'm going on 23 years now. About half of it has been spent as an individual contributor where the other half has been more towards leadership, where I've been building and developing teams.

And the teams I've developed really have been inside sales, sales development teams. I have had teams of closers, but really, my focus and effort has been on sales development for a number of years in a number of companies.

You're right, I've been involved in the AA-ISP since early 2011. I had the privilege of serving the Silicon Valley Chapter as Vice President for about three years. And of those three years, we won Chapter of the Year, two of those three years.

So those are highlights in my career, to say the least. And more importantly, what I tell all new members or people considering membership is that you're going to meet people you will reference, refer, and call-on for the remainder of your career.

And again, what you put into it is precisely what you're going to get out of it. And I've been paid in spades as a result, and I love the association, and I'm thrilled to be here today, Bob.

Bob Perkins (02:24):
Well, we're really glad that you came along and we found each other. There wasn't an association supporting the profession of inside sales, and it certainly was a dream of mine to have this type of community.

Not in my wildest dreams did I think we'd have 10-12,000 members, 70 chapters around the world. It's really a testament to folks like yourself that have a passion for inside sales.

Today, I'd like to talk with you, Ralph, about this sales development role or business development. And I think you even mentioned in your intro that you've been doing that for a number of years.

What a lot of people, maybe that are newer to the profession of inside sales don't realize, but sales development back then, we used to call it lead generation or customer relationship management.

It's been around just about as long as inside sales has, but we've seen a tremendous focus on it over the last few years.

And I'd like you to sort of give us your thoughts on why we think over the last few years there's been additional focus and even tremendous growth on inside sales development role.

Ralph Barsi (03:36):
Sure. I was one of those old school sales development reps at one point, Bob. Back in the mid-nineties and early nineties, rather.

And I'm just amazed at how much it's evolved over the last 20 years or so. I think two primary reasons we've seen this tremendous growth in inside sales has really been because of the evolution of technology.

We didn't have email when even I started in my career. And just email alone is a phenomenon, in terms of communicating with our prospects and with our customers.

Phone is still number one, no matter how you slice it.

And I think that just the cost efficiencies of...the efficiency gains of bringing in your sales reps - literally bringing in your sales reps and not having them jet setting all over the world - while it's important to be looking your prospects and your customers in the baby blues and shaking hands and developing relationships through face-to-face conversation, it doesn't make sense every single time.

And I think that, in turn, has brought in a lot of sales folks to the inside - where a lot of work is getting done, where they're closing the same value size contracts from the phone and via email that a lot of folks 20 years ago were doing in person.

I don't think it's going to go away. I think it's going to continue to grow and evolve and it is going to continue to ride the wave of technology, which enables us to do a lot of stuff from the inside remotely, et cetera, et cetera.

Bob Perkins (05:23):
Yeah, good points. A lot of the research we've done, and others that do some of this virtual selling research around technology, around customer buying behaviors, it all points to the fact that more and more is happening virtually.

I mean, just think about how you and I buy things today. We want click-of-a-mouse, we want to see a maybe chat, an online chat. We want to go to Amazon or wherever.

So a lot of that is being now dragged into the business-to-business world, and purchasers, people making decisions, want it done virtually often. And I think that's part of the growth.

So we've seen a tremendous growth in inside sales. And when I say inside sales, I use that term really as an umbrella term to describe people that do just maybe prospecting, or appointment center, or business sales development - people that maybe account manage, maybe some hunters, sales executives, all the way up customer care.

But, staying on the sales development / business development, why don't you address with our viewers here some of your best practices or tips as they consider to either build up a sales development team or maybe take an existing team and make them better?

So, kind of give you an open palette to describe your leadership methods, your best practices, your tips for those viewers.

Ralph Barsi (06:54):
I'd be happy to. I think for those building up a team, obviously they're going to need to focus on recruiting and hiring first.

And the best practices that I continue to use and I see used in the marketplace that work time and time again, is those that focus on attracting your candidates versus pursuing your candidates.

So what I mean by that is it is really up to sales development leaders who are going to be the hiring managers, and are ultimately going to be the owners of these organizations, to really put themselves out there and focus on their brand in the marketplace as someone who is providing value to others.

And I'm a firm believer that the more value you add to the marketplace, the more valuable you'll become.

So this could be done by way of, if you do have an existing team, for example, and this could be a team of two and they do really well for the month or the quarter or the year, and they hit their goals or exceed their goals, take them out, whether it be to a baseball game or a restaurant or some local event, and capture that moment and tell others about it through LinkedIn, through Twitter, through other social media channels.

(08:10):
And when you're doing that consistently and repeatedly, you don't know how powerful that is when it comes to attracting potential candidates to your company, they're going to see this over and over again and want to work for someone like you, a leader who's touting the success of their team, recognizing their team, showing leadership by leading a winning team.

All that stuff creates a lot of positive swirl among potential candidates and they want to come work for you.

And then when you get them in the door, it's imperative when it comes to onboarding and training that again, you focus on attracting your audience, you face outward and you start focusing on "Why do buyers buy from us? Who are best customers? What problems and critical business issues have we solved for them to get them to build a long lasting relationship with our organization?"

So focusing the message on that as early as onboarding of new hires has been a best practice that I've also seen work over and over again.

And then with respect to existing teams and the sustaining of those existing teams, it is critical that sales development and inside sales leaders create a well-lit career path for those reps so that they know where they're going to be in 1, 2, 3 years and they can really focus and stay present on their existing role in mastering that existing role so that they're best prepared to move upward and onward in the organization.

So those are three examples that I've seen work over and over, Bob.

Bob Perkins (09:46):
Really good, really good. Let's stick on the career path. And do you use micro-levels? Associate rep? Senior rep? Before, maybe they even change into a completely different role?

Ralph Barsi (10:01):
Yes. I've done it in a couple different organizations. And your traditional career ladder, if you will, would look a little like this:

You'd bring in, as you mentioned, maybe an associate sales development rep. Maybe you have them just focusing on nothing but the inbound lead qualification. It's a little easier of a conversation when someone has already inquired about your offering.

They would then get promoted upward into an outbound-only role, where it's a little tougher in that they don't get the luxury of that inbound inquiry. No one's knocking on the door. Instead, it's the other way around. And now you are pursuing your customer base through prospecting.

And all along the way, they're learning critical skills, as you know, to become a successful account executive in the field.

And they're learning life skills and professional skills that they'll draw from for the rest of their career, which could be networking, picking up the phone and calling a C-level executive, brokering an introduction between two executives, et cetera, et cetera. Goes on and on.

Bob Perkins (11:04):
A lot of work to being a BDR or an SDR. There's countless hours and days and weeks and months of just a lot of calling. And if you have some dialer technology or acceleration platform, you're just never off the phone, right?

So, do you have any tips on how to keep these folks charged up over the long haul, given the demands of they're tied to that phone? Right?

Ralph Barsi (11:38):
Yeah. It goes back to what I said about really mastering the craft of sales. And if you know what your window is, that you're going to be a BDR or an SDR, and you have the end in mind, every single phone call you make - what I call "the grind" - it serves its own purpose towards getting you into that next role.

So, very similar to Michael Jordan practicing in the middle of the night with no one watching, and he's doing free throw after free throw, trying to make a little tweak or a 1% improvement on every shot.

The same applies for every phone call you make, every voicemail you leave, et cetera, when you're a BDR or an SDR.

So, when you focus on the end and you focus on the vision you have and what you're becoming while you're in this role, it makes those day-to-day activities much easier to navigate through.

Bob Perkins (12:34):
So a good leader would really paint a vision. They'd have some carrots out there in the long haul and would encourage people to stay in it for the long haul.

Ralph Barsi (12:45):
Absolutely. I've seen a lot of success, Bob, when I have set expectations with new hires, that this is at least a two-year gig that they're getting into.

And when they pick their jaws up from the floor, I explain to them, "Hey, in the first half of your tenure in this role, we're going to focus on mastery of this role and mastery of sales development and inside sales.

And then the latter half of your tenure, we're going to focus as an organization on preparing you for the next role. And that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to want to go into sales after doing this for a year, year and a half.

You might, maybe customer success appeals to you or marketing or maybe even finance," but whatever that is, if you have a close enough relationship with your leader and you're hitting your goal and you're performing, et cetera, the leader will help create a path for you and help get you where you need to go.

Bob Perkins (13:38):
And that's a great point. A lot of times you're hiring out of college or close to out of college a year or two out, and some people aren't.

Quite a lot of people I know, I taught for years, and then I was a tennis pro and I didn't really know, I didn't fall into my true calling until I was, I tell people that I was like in my thirties, I think.

But sure, some really good points.

Alright, let's have a little fun here. I'm going to go into what I call rapid-fire questions and give one or two word to answer one sentence maybe at the most.

And I'm just going to, I'll try to throw you a couple of curve balls in there to see how you handle 'em. Let's start with leadership. Give me the top two qualities of a good business development leader.

Ralph Barsi (14:33):
They are servants. They are not at the top of the organization. They're at the bottom of the organization serving up and they're removing obstacles from their team's path and making sure that they get where they need to go, they're enablers.

Bob Perkins (14:50):
Good. Excellent. Okay, let's go to the frontline. What's the one mistake you see sales development reps making during a phone call that you've observed The one or two mistakes that stand out to you?

Ralph Barsi (15:06):
Sure. They talk too much, number one. And number two, they talk about themselves and they don't talk about the prospect on the other side of the phone or what's interesting in the prospect's world.

It's all about their new offering. And it is ridiculous. It drives me crazy because I talk about it all the time and people still do it. So I need to be louder and I need to get myself out there a little bit more. Bob,

Bob Perkins (15:31):
I recorded a Monday Morning Salesman, and every Monday, our members and the community can log on and get my two minute tip. And I did one on the top misses and you nailed two of 'em.

I said they talk more than they listen. They don't ask enough questions. And then I did a second one on be interested in the person before you try to be interesting with what you sell. I love that. I think I heard that in an AA-ISP conference: Be interested before you're interesting.

Ralph Barsi (16:05):
Yeah, so speaking of that, Bob, and speaking of an AA-ISP conference, our friend Steve Richard at ExecVision has often talked about what he calls the 3-in-3 Method, and sales development reps may not know everything in anything about a specific prospect that they're calling, but it never hurts to have three insightful pieces of information to mention in a 3-minute conversation.

That way, you're not bombarding the prospect, you're not picking up the entire conversation with you talking, but when you do talk, you're very precise and concise about what is interesting to them and in their world, and it works like a charm. So big credit to Steve Richard, and his team.

Bob Perkins (16:48):
"Three-by-three," I had that. I quoted Steve on another Monday Morning Salesman and gave him credit for the three-by-three research.

Here's another rapid-fire here: So, if you're a sales development rep, business development rep earlier in your career, a lot of companies - it's jeans and t-shirts. It's informal, but still today, if you want to move your career along, you have to have an era of professionalism about you.

So what tips would you give to younger, newer SDRs, BDRs around something they can do to make themselves stand out professionally?

Ralph Barsi (17:28):
Yeah, that's a really good topic. I think what you believe you become, and if you want to be taken seriously, you got to kind of take yourself seriously first, because you'll create such a great groundswell just from your own belief system, your own self-confidence, that it will be infectious.

And those you will realize that you are a person whose standards are raised and just a little bit higher than the average, hopefully much higher than the average. And you will begin to be treated that way. And if you need to wear jeans and a t-shirt, but you still bring results to the organization, and the organization is okay with it, and you are a person who leads and takes initiative and still takes themselves seriously, you'll end up being taken seriously.

Bob Perkins (18:18):
There's a lot of ways that people can show their professionalism and integrity and value. Let's just fire off some here. I'll get it going.

The time you're supposed to be at work is eight, be there at five minutes to eight, not five minutes after eight. So that's one. Let's share a couple more with us. Ralph Tips, right?

Ralph Barsi (18:42):
Yeah, absolutely. So if you start work at eight, I argue, get there at seven and you start hammering things out and you start owning the day and the week, or it will own you.

And if you need to stay late, you stay late. If you need to work on Saturday to go through Salesforce and button-up the contact that you're going to be reaching out to and owning your inbound and owning your outbound, now's the time to do it.

Especially for the young BDRs and SDRs out there who are just starting out in their career. This is the time to get after it. There is no time to wait right now. And frankly, your leaders, they don't have the time either, except for right now, to really invest in your career before they get on with something else. So it's time to hustle.

Bob Perkins (19:34):
I had a habit in my career and I called it the Weekly Planning. And I would, after the kids went off to bed on Sunday evening, I would take two hours Sunday evening and I would get out my laptop, get out my calendar, I would prepare for the week ahead.

I'd check off some things that I'd let slide past Friday, I'd write some emails, I'd get things done, I'd prep my calendar, I'd make my to-do list. So when I showed up Monday morning, I was ready to go. I didn't spend an hour or two just getting organized.

Ralph Barsi (20:07):
Right? So as we speak, Bob, I've got my mobile phone right here and here is a snapshot of Evernote, and it is a great application to have because it's mobile and it is as accessible as you are.

And every single day I wake up and I write down in Evernote, it takes me two minutes what my goals are for the day. And then before I go to sleep every single night, I actually review and recap what I was able to get done. And I'm just a big fan of checking the box and making sure that I'm crossing stuff out and I'm constantly moving and I'm constantly getting stuff done.

And you have these little mini-successes throughout the day and throughout the week as you're accomplishing things and making progress. And it goes a very long way as the years add up and you develop a pretty sharp habit that no one can mess with.

Bob Perkins (21:00):
Yeah, that's great. That's great. Ralph. In a couple minutes, we're going to talk a little bit more about the association, but just before we go there and sort of end out the interview here, is there anything else you'd like to share with the viewers?

We will have leaders viewing this, we'll have some frontline folks doing this. Anything else that you'd like to share relative to the role of business development or sales development?

Ralph Barsi (21:26):
Yeah, absolutely. I firmly believe in all my heart that everybody brings their own strengths and unique gifts to a situation.

And if you are not taking advantage of those strengths and gifts by sharing what only you possess with the larger community, you're not doing anyone, including yourself, a very good service.

So I would encourage you all to be yourselves and bring to the fold what no one else but you can bring. And a lot of people shy away from doing that. They don't want to brand themselves, they don't want to put their toe in the water, but we need you members, fellow folks in your industry and community.

We need what you can bring to the table, share it, share your strengths with us, because we're all learning from each other all the time. And I think it's a great segue into you talking about the AA-ISP, Bob.

I mean, it is just the perfect venue to share what you are learning in the industry because it's likely a lot of us are learning it for the first time as well. So we want to hear your experiences.

Bob Perkins (22:40):
That's fantastic. Really good ending point. A little bit of a charge out there to those folks that are moving their careers along to the leaders out there.

We're in a fantastic time. I got to tell you, I thought inside sales about 10 years ago sort of was leveling-off. I felt we hit our stride and we're just going to kind of coast into the future. Nothing could be further from the truth. We got...

Ralph Barsi (23:09):
Little did you know...

Bob Perkins (23:11):
It's unbelievable. So on that note, let's talk about the community. You've been very involved in the association. You actually, I know you MC'd the awards banquet one year. We had you do that. It seems like we're always tapping on your shoulder to help. And I want to thank you for giving back.

But why don't you mention what does the association mean to you and what are some things that maybe those watching that haven't been involved might be able to pick up through the community?

Ralph Barsi (23:40):
Yeah, it's my pleasure. So, the association means a lot to me, Bob. I've poured my heart into the Silicon Valley Chapter over the last several years, as well as to the larger organization.

And, as I mentioned at the beginning of our talk, really what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it. And because I've put a lot into it, I've been able to develop relationships that I'll have the rest of my life.

I've called on so many different members, it is not even funny - for day-to-day questions, issues I might be running into, to recommendations on hiring profiles or candidates or talk tracks when my team's calling into a specific industry.

Whenever I have come home from one of our events, whether it be a national event or a local event, I've logged into the website and I've been able to reference a lot of the PowerPoint decks from presentations in the event.

(24:41):
And I've reached out to those speakers, I've cited people in articles I've written. It goes on and on and on with the amount of payback I have received from our ecosystem.

And talking with you, talking with Larry Reeves, not just about inside sales, but we're all musicians. So we talk about music and it is a family. It is a friendship. It is a very real community.

And I'm not just here plugging away because I'm on your show here, Bob. It really means a lot to me. And there's a lot of just genuine, good people in this community that we're involved with.

Bob Perkins (25:19):
Yeah, I couldn't have said it any better. And I often tell people, if you've never been to a conference, we're salespeople, right?

Salespeople have egos. But it seems like all the chapter meetings, the events, I say those egos are somehow checked at the door, aren't they?

Ralph Barsi (25:36):
Yeah, absolutely. And the best salespeople, as you know, they're better listeners than they are talkers. So when you speak with someone who is a member of this association, they do the fundamentals - they look you right in the eye, they give you firm handshakes, they listen to what you're saying, they offer really good, solid feedback.

It is constructive. It makes sense. It is applicable. It just goes on and on. I'm a huge fan, as you can all tell.

Bob Perkins (26:06):
No, it's great. We've appreciated all of your support, your work, your effort, volunteering in so many different arenas, not just in the chapter officer role.

It feels like this is a type of movement and it's a fresh, eager, passionate movement. A movement that knows we can get better and is not just caught up on what's in it for me, it's in it for everyone.

And Ralph, I hope someday that when we talk about inside sales, it's really just talking about the profession of sales. Not something that years ago was like, this is a phone sales, right? Well now everybody's doing the same thing. Traditional field salespeople are doing 95% of what inside salespeople are doing and vice versa.

Alright. Well, look, it's been fantastic. I'm glad we got this on the calendar. We're going to get this aired on the studio here in the next few weeks and we'll promote it. So hopefully we get a lot of viewers. Ralph, thanks so much. Really appreciate it.

Ralph Barsi (27:17):
It's my pleasure, Bob. Thank you. And I hope the audience finds a little bit of value from it that they can immediately apply in their own profession.

Bob Perkins (27:25):
I'm sure they will. Until next time, everyone, thanks for joining us on Inside Sales Studio.

And this is Bob Perkins signing off. Have a great week.