🎙️ Transcript: Outbound Squad [PipeGen Live]

Outbound Squad - [PipeGen Live]
"Displacing Competitors: How to Eat Your Competitors' Lunch"
Jason Bay, Anthony Iannarino, Ryan Oosterveld, Ralph Barsi
July 24, 2024

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🎧 Hear on Spotify

Summary

This panel discussion featuring Jason Bay, Anthony Iannarino, Ryan Oosterveld, and Ralph Barsi explored strategies for competitive displacement in B2B sales.

The conversation centered on how to approach saturated markets where buyers already have solutions in place, with over half of B2B purchases resulting in high regret—creating opportunities for sales professionals.

The experts emphasized that successful competitive displacement starts not with product features, but with strategic insights and business outcomes.

They discussed gaining access to accounts with incumbents, navigating complex buying committees, positioning against competitors without negativity, and most importantly, retaining customers by continuously delivering new value.

The panel stressed that relationships, executive-level engagement, and thought leadership through executive briefings are critical differentiators that transcend product capabilities.

BIG Takeaways

• Lead with insights, not solutions – Executives don't care about features or product demos. Start conversations by sharing industry trends and strategic outcomes that impact their business, positioning yourself as a trusted advisor before ever discussing your solution.

• Focus on "why change" not "why us" – Before competing on product capabilities, establish a compelling reason for the prospect to change from their current state. Without a clear business case for change, they'll default to the status quo regardless of how superior your solution is.

• Never badmouth competitors – Differentiate through your strengths and unique value, not by attacking competitors. Use proof points, case studies, and customer testimonials to let others validate your superiority while you maintain credibility and professionalism.

• Build consensus across all stakeholders – Engage with multiple decision-makers early—executives, practitioners, IT, and end users. Tailor your message to each persona's concerns and create proposals with different sections addressing what matters to each stakeholder group.

• De-risk the decision at every stage – Change is inherently risky. Reduce fear through phased implementations, strong onboarding plans, customer references, pilot programs, and transparent communication about what the transition will actually look like.

• Continuously deliver new value post-sale – Retention requires a roadmap of ongoing value creation. Plan what you'll do next with clients before you even close the deal. Use executive briefings, quarterly reviews with strategic insights, and proactive innovation to stay ahead of competitors trying to displace you.

• Play the long game with incumbents – When contracts or relationships block immediate access, focus on building relationships and adding value over time. Use trigger events, multi-channel outreach, and executive insights sessions to stay top-of-mind until the opportunity opens.

Transcript

Jason Bay (00:02):
We are going to get started. You guys let us know in the chat, what was your first sales job? We got a ton of people who had paper routes, jewelry sales, Cutco knives, and a lot of door-to-door folks.

Welcome to Pipe Gen Live. We're going to talk about displacing competitors and how to eat your competitors' lunch. Before we dig in, I want to thank ZoomInfo.

What can I say about ZoomInfo? One of my favorite tools obviously for data, but one of the big things that ZoomInfo is really getting into is how do we get the entire go-to-market tech stack to work together. How can we get marketing in the same place, sales in the same place? How can we take all the conversations that we're recording and get some really useful data?

They're in the AI game now, so go make sure to check out ZoomInfo today. Now let's talk about what we're covering.

Jason Bay (00:47):
I've got some quick stats that I'm going to share on the state of sales and specifically the competitive landscape. I'm going to introduce our three other speakers that we have here today for our panel, and then we're going to do a quick one-on-one.

Because a lot of folks are going to ask, yes, the call's being recorded and we'll email it out afterwards. We also want to answer as many questions as possible. So if you guys have questions, drop them into the Q&A section and we'll get started.

This image is a little old, but I always like to show it—the competitive landscape. This was just the marketing tech stack. What you see here on the screen was pulled I believe in 2016 or 2017—really competitive. It's even more competitive now.

I think there are a couple of stats that are good to have in the back of your mind as we go through the panel today. One, the average business reports competing with 25 or more competitors, and that's gone up over time.

Jason Bay (01:48):
Software for really the first time—maybe in the last two or three years—is feeling a lot more like the rest of the sales world. Everything is a rip and replace. Everyone has something in place that you have to rip and replace versus being a net new solution.

There's hardly anything coming out that's new these days. I think the biggest opportunity is that over half of B2B purchases out there are still categorized as high regret. In other words, there are a lot of people who are very unsatisfied with their current solution, which gives us an opportunity as sales professionals to start that conversation.

So let's get to the content. I'm going to quickly introduce today's speakers and then we're going to dig in. We have Anthony, Ian, and Reno.

It's kind of hard to fill in this part, Anthony, in terms of what you do because there are so many different things.

Jason Bay (02:35):
But the author of some really great sales books, one of them being "Eat Their Lunch," keynote speaker, runs a huge staffing company. You're in the game doing sales. So we've got Anthony here today.

We've got Ralph Barsi, VP of Sales at Kahua. We've got Ryan Oosterveld, Director of Sales at ZoomInfo. And if you're just coming across our stuff for the first time, my name's Jason Bay.

I run a company called Outbound Squad where we do sales training, coaching, all of that kind of stuff for some of the largest software companies out there. So let's kind of set the stage here.

What I want to dig into first, if we kind of think about competitive displacement, I want to approach this in four areas. One is I think we should get aligned on what the proper approach is, and then we can talk about how to gain access into those accounts. Then ultimately in competitive deals, how do we win these?

Anthony, I wanted to kick the first question your way to get started.

Jason Bay (03:30):
You have this approach that you've talked about in several of your books and that you've worked with companies on. It's this idea that if I want to start conversations and get executives especially interested, insights and relationships is the way to do that, not talking about our solution. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that and give us some high-level perspective on the approach before we start digging into all the tactics?

Anthony Iannarino (04:03):
The best way for me to start this is to tell you about three calls that I take. If you cold call me, I'm going to take your call. You might not like what I say, but I will still take your call.

One guy called me and said, "We've got a brand new CRM and I'd like you to go through a demo with us." I said, "Does it have a box that says first name and then one that says last name and phone number and email? I don't need to see a demo." At the end of this, the guy said, "I only get paid if you go through a demo." I said, "You're going to be eating ramen tonight, my friend." I've got three kids to take care of—I can't take care of you.

Anthony Iannarino (04:46):
Another person that called me—I'm only going to give you the second guy. I said, "You know what your problem is?" He said, "No, what?" I said, "You don't have a 'why change.'" He said, "What's that?" I said, "If they don't have a reason to change, they're not going to change."

He goes, "Can I call you back in 10 minutes?" I said, "Okay." He called me back, he figured out the why change, it was perfect. He said, "Thanks, that was really helpful."

We start at the wrong thing. What we think is, "I have this solution and I have to displace the other person's solution." The reason they do this is because in onboarding you get the gaslighting: "We're the best company on earth, we've got the best solution compared to anybody, and we have the best clients."

Once they have that and they believe that's true, that's how they talk. But if you talk to a leader, they don't care about any of this stuff.

Anthony Iannarino (05:36):
I would tell you the best thing for you to do is to start with the strategic outcome. So I came out of temporary staffing, I did it for a very long time, and I started to notice nobody cares about staffing. They don't want them.

I used to tell people, "I will give you the very best unreliable people that we can find." They would laugh because they know that's true. But when I started to say, "What do you need to do? Do you need flexibility? Do you need to lower your labor costs? Do you need to be able to hire these people? What are you doing this for?"

There are only a few things that people need as a strategic outcome, and it turns out that's the kind of conversation that they want. They want to talk about what are the outcomes. I don't care about your solution, I don't care about your SaaS product—I want to know how does this make my business better?

If you don't start there, then you're starting in a place where people are going to just tune out because they don't need to know about features. Especially leaders—they don't have any interest in that. They want to know what are we going to do that's going to make us more money or save us money or something.

Jason Bay (06:54):
Totally. Ryan, I wanted your thoughts. At ZoomInfo, you guys have sort of been going through this journey in the last two or three years of moving upmarket and getting into larger businesses and selling larger deals.

Where have you guys seen this take place in terms of what Anthony's talking about around elevating the conversation and talking about business problems? Versus "we can get data and email addresses and phone numbers"—I know this has been a really big thing that you guys have been working on.

Ryan Oosterveld (07:25):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely correct. I think in the SMB market, you're doing a lot of educating, thought leadership. They might not have a tool in place yet, they've never gone to market in this way. So you can kind of help guide that buyer a lot more and you might not be going up against 15 competitors or an incumbent already.

But to your point, Jason, in that mid-market, the enterprise space, it's pretty rare that I ever run into an account that doesn't already have a solution in place that we go head-to-head against. To Anthony's point, what I'm not looking to do is say, "Hey, we're better than X, Y, Z competitor. We can do more on this and that."

It's really trying to understand what are the sales and marketing leaders in these types of corporations generally challenged with. Because they're not going to be in our solution day to day. They're looking for things that can help their ICs, help their individual teams as best as possible.

Ryan Oosterveld (08:10):
So we really do focus on what is our value proposition to those markets. Where are we different? Having an all-in-one solution, not having your team going to multiple different endpoints to get the data or to use it.

You mentioned earlier when you kicked this off from a sponsorship standpoint, being able to blend those teams together, have better synergies along sales and marketing. I think every company wants that ability. So really with these larger companies, again, it's not focusing on, "Oh, you're using this company or this solution."

It's "Hey, we already know they're using something. Where can we really help drive incremental value to what they're doing, make them more efficient?" And again, to Anthony's point, kind of keep it solution and problem-driven versus features and functionality.

Jason Bay (08:59):
Ralph, you're selling into the construction vertical, which is a pretty interesting vertical to sell into for a lot of reasons. But one of the ones that we were kind of prepping before the call is a lot of these folks have been using the same solutions for a very, very long time. They're not adopters of technology very quickly.

What have you seen work really well and what advice would you have for folks on the call today that are selling into customers that have been using something forever? They're not quick adopters of new technology. They're very hesitant about it.

Ralph Barsi (09:34):
Yeah, I mean, it's a real thing. When you're in the construction industry, there's a lot of old-school mindsets, rightfully so. These folks have been in business for decades, some of them for over a century.

When we're in there selling software or any kind of service for that matter, I think it's all about de-risking the deal for them. So it's not about feature-function, it's not about ROI calculators or any of those things. It's really about how we're going to make their life easier.

So with us, we've got to really simplify the message. We've got to show them that we're not just another tech vendor coming in trying to disrupt their world. We're actually there to partner with them and help them achieve what they're already trying to achieve but in a more efficient way.

Ralph Barsi (10:11):
What I've found is that showing them peer examples is huge. "Hey, look at what this other general contractor is doing." "Look at what this other construction firm is doing." That social proof goes a long way.

The other thing is, we can't come in there guns blazing with a 90-day implementation plan. We've got to chunk it down into phases. "Let's start small, let's prove value, and then we'll expand from there."

That approach has worked really well for us. It takes the pressure off of them making this massive commitment upfront. They can test the waters and then grow with us over time.

Jason Bay (10:45):
I love that. One of the things that I think is really important, especially when you're selling into these types of accounts, is you have to be patient. You can't force the timeline.

You have to meet them where they're at in terms of their buying process. I think one of the biggest mistakes that salespeople make is they try to force their sales process onto the buyer's buying process. Instead of actually understanding where the buyer is at and meeting them there.

Anthony, I want to go back to you for a second. One of the things that you talk about a lot is this idea of creating consensus within the buying committee. Can you talk a little bit about that and how that plays into competitive displacement?

Anthony Iannarino (11:20):
Yeah, so when you're trying to displace a competitor, one of the things that happens is you have to recognize that there are going to be people on the other side who are defending the status quo. They're defending their current vendor. Maybe they made the decision to bring that vendor in.

So you've got to think about how do we create consensus among all the different stakeholders. This is where insights become really powerful. Because if you can share an insight that affects multiple stakeholders, now you've got everybody aligned around the same problem.

The other thing is, you can't just focus on your champion. You need to understand who else is involved in this decision. Who's going to be affected by this change? Who might resist it?

Anthony Iannarino (12:03):
Then you need to have a plan for how you're going to engage with each of those stakeholders. What's the conversation you're going to have with the CFO? What's the conversation you're going to have with the operations person? What's the conversation you're going to have with the end users?

Each of those conversations needs to be tailored to what they care about. The CFO cares about different things than the operations person cares about. So you've got to be able to speak their language.

The other thing I'll say is, don't be afraid to coach your champion on how to sell internally. They're going to have to do that work. You can't be in every meeting. So you need to equip them with the tools and the information they need to be able to sell on your behalf.

Jason Bay (12:45):
That's huge. Ryan, I know at ZoomInfo, you guys deal with a lot of complex buying committees, especially as you move upmarket. What have you seen work well in terms of navigating those buying committees and making sure that you're engaging with all the right stakeholders?

Ryan Oosterveld (13:02):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think first and foremost, you've got to do your homework. You've got to understand the org chart. Who reports to whom? What are the different departments that are going to be touched by this?

We use our own product to do a lot of that research. We'll look at the org chart, we'll look at the different people, we'll see who's recently joined the company, who's been there for a long time. All of that context helps us understand the political landscape.

The other thing is, we try to get access to as many stakeholders as possible early in the process. We don't want to wait until the end and find out there's some key stakeholder who hasn't been involved who now has objections.

Ryan Oosterveld (13:40):
So we'll be very proactive about saying, "Hey, who else should be involved in this conversation?" "Who else is going to be impacted by this decision?" We want to make sure we're bringing those people in early. That way we can address any concerns or objections before they become deal-breakers.

The other thing I'll say is, we create a lot of content that's tailored to different personas. So we have executive-level content, we have practitioner-level content, we have technical content. That way, depending on who we're talking to, we can give them the right information that's relevant to them.

Jason Bay (14:13):
Ralph, what about you? How do you think about navigating buying committees in the construction space?

Ralph Barsi (14:19):
Yeah, so construction is interesting because you've got a lot of different stakeholders. You've got the project managers, you've got the superintendents in the field, you've got the executives back at headquarters, you've got IT. All of these people have different concerns and priorities.

What we do is, we try to align our solution to the pain points of each of those different groups. So for the people in the field, we're talking about how we make their life easier. "You're not going to have to deal with paper anymore. You're not going to have to chase people down for information."

For the executives, we're talking about risk mitigation. "How do we reduce the risk of cost overruns? How do we reduce the risk of delays?" For IT, we're talking about security and integration with their existing systems.

Ralph Barsi (15:02):
The key is to have those separate conversations but then bring it all together in a way that shows how everybody wins. We create a proposal that has different sections for different stakeholders. So the executive summary is for the C-suite. There's a section on implementation for IT. There's a section on change management for the operations folks.

That way, everybody can see how this is going to impact them. They can see what's in it for them. And then when they come together to make the decision, there's already alignment because we've done the work upfront to create that alignment.

Jason Bay (15:35):
I love that. I think that's one of the things that a lot of salespeople miss is they create one proposal and they think it's going to work for everybody. But the reality is, different stakeholders care about different things. You need to speak to each of them individually.

Anthony, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about the actual competitive battle. Once you're in the deal and you know there's a competitor, how do you think about positioning yourself against that competitor without necessarily bashing them?

Anthony Iannarino (16:04):
Yeah, so the first thing is, you never want to say anything negative about your competitor. That's just a bad look. It makes you look petty, it makes you look insecure. What you want to do instead is differentiate yourself.

So the way I like to think about it is, there are table stakes—things that everybody in your category does. Then there are differentiators—things that make you unique. You want to focus on your differentiators.

But here's the key: your differentiators need to be tied to the business outcomes that the customer cares about. It's not enough to just say, "We have this feature and they don't." You need to say, "We have this capability, and here's why it matters to your business."

Anthony Iannarino (16:48):
The other thing I'll say is, you want to anticipate the objections that the competitor is going to raise about you. If you know what they're going to say, you can inoculate the prospect against it. So you can bring it up yourself in a way that's transparent and honest.

For example, if you know the competitor is going to say, "They're more expensive," you can say, "Look, we're not the cheapest option out there. But here's why we're worth the investment. Here's the value we deliver. Here's the risk you take if you go with the cheaper option."

By addressing it proactively, you take the wind out of their sails. Now when they bring it up, the prospect has already heard your side of the story.

Jason Bay (17:27):
Ryan, what about you? How do you handle competitive situations at ZoomInfo?

Ryan Oosterveld (17:33):
Yeah, so similar to what Anthony said, we never badmouth the competition. What we do instead is, we focus on our strengths. We know what our strengths are, we know where we add the most value. So we make sure to highlight those things throughout the sales process.

One thing we do is, we use proof points. We'll show case studies, we'll show data, we'll show testimonials from customers who've switched from a competitor to us. That social proof is really powerful because it's not us saying we're better—it's our customers saying we're better.

The other thing we do is, we try to get ahead of the competitive comparison. So if we know there's a competitor in the deal, we'll proactively address how we're different before they even ask. That way, we're controlling the narrative.

Ryan Oosterveld (18:17):
We also do battle cards for our sales team. So for each major competitor, we have a battle card that outlines their strengths, their weaknesses, how we compare, common objections they raise, how to handle those objections. That way, our reps are prepared when they're in those competitive situations.

The last thing I'll say is, we focus a lot on the relationship. At the end of the day, people buy from people they trust. So we make sure we're building strong relationships with our prospects. Because even if the competitor has a similar product, if we have a better relationship, we're going to win.

Jason Bay (18:52):
Ralph, how do you handle competitive situations?

Ralph Barsi (18:56):
Yeah, so in construction, a lot of times the competitor is the status quo. It's not even another vendor—it's just the way they've always done things. So our job is to create a vision for what's possible.

We do that by sharing stories. We'll share a story about another customer who was in a similar situation, who made the change, and here's what happened. That storytelling is really powerful because it helps them see themselves in that story.

The other thing we do is, we focus on the partnership aspect. We're not just selling software—we're becoming a partner in their business. So we talk about the implementation, we talk about the training, we talk about the ongoing support. We want them to see us as an extension of their team, not just a vendor.

Ralph Barsi (19:39):
When there is another vendor in the mix, we focus on our domain expertise. We've been in construction for a long time. We understand the industry. We understand the challenges. That expertise gives us credibility that a more generic solution might not have.

And like the others said, we never bash the competition. We just focus on what makes us unique and why that matters for their specific situation.

Jason Bay (20:05):
I think that's a really important point that all of you have made—you never want to badmouth the competition. It just makes you look bad. You want to focus on your strengths and differentiate yourself in a positive way.

Anthony, I want to talk about access for a minute. Because one of the challenges with competitive displacement is actually getting in the door. A lot of times, the existing vendor has relationships, they have contracts, they have inertia on their side. How do you think about gaining access into accounts where there's an incumbent?

Anthony Iannarino (20:38):
So the first thing I'll say is, you have to be patient and persistent. This is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You're not going to displace an incumbent overnight. It's going to take time, it's going to take multiple touches, it's going to take building a relationship.

The way I like to think about it is, you're trying to become an alternative resource. Even if they're happy with their current vendor, you can still be a resource for them. You can share insights, you can share trends, you can share what's happening in the industry.

Over time, what happens is, you build trust. They start to see you as someone who's adding value, not just trying to sell them something. Then when something changes—maybe their incumbent drops the ball, maybe their needs change, maybe there's a new initiative—you're top of mind.

Anthony Iannarino (21:25):
The other thing I'll say is, you have to give before you get. You can't just show up and ask for a meeting. You have to give them something of value first. That could be an insight, that could be a piece of research, that could be an introduction to someone in your network who could help them.

When you give first, it creates reciprocity. Now they feel like they owe you something. So when you ask for that meeting, they're more likely to say yes.

The last thing I'll say is, you have to be creative about how you get access. Maybe you can't get to the decision-maker directly, but you can get to someone else in the organization. Maybe you can't get a formal meeting, but you can have a coffee conversation. You've got to be flexible and creative in your approach.

Jason Bay (22:08):
Ryan, what about you? How do you think about gaining access into accounts where there's an incumbent?

Ryan Oosterveld (22:14):
Yeah, so we use a multi-channel approach. We're not just relying on one method. We're using email, we're using phone calls, we're using LinkedIn, we're using direct mail in some cases. We want to be present across multiple channels so that we're top of mind.

The other thing we do is, we use triggers. We're looking for events that might create an opening. Maybe they just got a new CMO or a new CRO. Maybe they just raised funding. Maybe they just made an acquisition. Those types of events often create an opportunity to start a conversation.

When we reach out, we're very specific about why we're reaching out at that moment. "Hey, I saw that you just hired a new VP of Sales. Congratulations. Here's something that might be relevant as you're ramping up your team."

Ryan Oosterveld (22:57):
We also use our product to identify champions. We'll look at who's engaging with our content, who's visiting our website, who's opening our emails. Those people are showing interest, so we prioritize them.

And like Anthony said, we focus on giving value first. We might share a benchmark report, we might share some data that's relevant to their industry. We want them to see us as a valuable resource before we ever ask for anything.

Jason Bay (23:25):
Ralph, how do you think about gaining access in the construction space?

Ralph Barsi (23:30):
Yeah, so construction is very much a relationship-driven industry. A lot of times, the way you get in is through a referral or an introduction. So we spend a lot of time asking our existing customers, "Who else should we be talking to?"

We also go to industry events. Construction has a lot of trade shows, conferences, association meetings. We make sure we're present at those events so we can meet people face-to-face. That face-to-face interaction goes a long way in construction.

The other thing we do is, we use case studies and success stories. If we have a customer that's similar to the prospect we're trying to reach, we'll use that as a way to get in the door. "Hey, we worked with this other contractor who had a similar challenge. I thought you might be interested in hearing how they solved it."

Ralph Barsi (24:12):
We also do a lot of education. We'll host webinars, we'll create content, we'll do workshops. The idea is to position ourselves as thought leaders in the space. When we do that, people come to us. They see us as experts, and they want to learn from us.

And similar to what Ryan said, we look for triggers. New projects, new leadership, new partnerships—those are all opportunities to start a conversation.

Jason Bay (24:39):
I love all of those strategies. I think the common thread here is, you have to be persistent, you have to be patient, and you have to be adding value. You can't just show up asking for something. You have to give first.

Anthony, I want to talk about closing competitive deals. Once you're in the deal, you've done all the work, you've navigated the buying committee, you've positioned yourself well against the competition. What are some of the things that you think about in the final stages to make sure you actually win the deal?

Anthony Iannarino (25:09):
So the first thing is, you have to make sure you have a champion. If you don't have someone inside the organization who's actively selling for you when you're not in the room, you're going to lose. So you need to identify who that person is and you need to equip them with everything they need to be able to advocate for you.

The second thing is, you have to de-risk the decision. Change is risky. They're going to have to fire their current vendor, they're going to have to onboard a new solution, they're going to have to get their team on board. That's a lot of risk. So you have to show them how you're going to mitigate that risk.

That could be through a phased implementation, that could be through strong onboarding and training, that could be through references from other customers who've successfully made the switch. Whatever it is, you need to make them feel confident that this is going to work.

Anthony Iannarino (25:59):
The third thing is, you have to create urgency. If there's no urgency, they're going to stick with the status quo. So you need to help them understand what the cost of inaction is. What happens if they don't make this change? What opportunities are they missing? What risks are they taking?

The last thing I'll say is, you have to be willing to walk away. If it's not a good fit, if they're not ready, if they're not willing to make the investment, you have to be willing to say, "This isn't the right time." Because if you try to force it, it's going to blow up in your face. You'll win the deal but lose the customer.

Jason Bay (26:36):
That's a great point. Ryan, what about you? What do you think about in the final stages of closing a competitive deal?

Ryan Oosterveld (26:43):
Yeah, so I think one of the most important things is making sure you have executive alignment. If the executives aren't bought in, the deal's not going to happen. So we make sure we're engaging with the C-suite throughout the process.

We also do a lot of internal selling. We'll do custom demos for different stakeholders, we'll create custom proposals, we'll bring in our own executives to meet with their executives. We want to show them that we're taking this seriously and that we're committed to their success.

The other thing we do is, we get legal involved early. We don't want to wait until the end to start negotiating the contract. So we'll engage with their legal team early in the process, get their feedback, address any concerns. That way, when we get to the end, it's a smooth process.

Ryan Oosterveld (27:27):
We also use proof of concept or pilot programs when appropriate. If there's any hesitation, we'll say, "Let's do a small pilot. Let's prove the value. And then we can expand from there." That takes the pressure off and gives them confidence.

And like Anthony said, we focus on creating urgency. We'll tie the implementation to a specific business goal or initiative. "You've got this big product launch coming up. If we can get this in place by then, here's the impact it's going to have." That helps create a sense of urgency.

Jason Bay (28:00):
Ralph, what about you? How do you think about closing competitive deals?

Ralph Barsi (28:05):
Yeah, so in construction, one of the biggest things is showing them the path forward. They need to see exactly what's going to happen. What's the implementation process? How long is it going to take? What resources do they need to commit? Who's going to be involved?

We create a very detailed implementation plan that we share with them. That gives them confidence that we know what we're doing, that we've done this before, that we're not going to leave them hanging.

The other thing we do is, we involve our customer success team early. We'll have them meet with the prospect so they can see who's going to be supporting them after the sale. That continuity is really important. They want to know that the person selling them isn't just going to disappear after they sign the contract.

Ralph Barsi (28:49):
We also do a lot of reference calls. We'll connect them with other customers who are similar to them, who can speak to their experience. That peer-to-peer validation is incredibly powerful. It's not us saying we're great—it's their peers saying we're great.

And similar to what the others said, we focus on de-risking the decision. We'll offer flexible contract terms, we'll offer training and support, we'll offer a phased approach. Whatever it takes to make them feel comfortable making the change.

Jason Bay (29:21):
I think all of those are great strategies. The common thread is, you have to make it easy for them to say yes. You have to remove all the friction, you have to de-risk the decision, you have to create confidence.

I want to shift gears now and talk about something that's often overlooked, which is what happens after you win the deal. Because part of competitive displacement is making sure that you don't get displaced yourself. Anthony, how do you think about retention and making sure that once you've won the deal, you keep it?

Anthony Iannarino (29:53):
So this is where a lot of companies drop the ball. They think once they've won the deal, the hard work is over. But the reality is, that's when the hard work begins. Because now you have to deliver on everything you promised. You have to prove that they made the right decision.

The first thing is, you have to have a strong onboarding process. You can't just throw them the keys and say, "Good luck." You have to be very hands-on in the beginning, making sure they're getting value quickly. You want them to have wins early so they can justify the decision to their organization.

The second thing is, you have to maintain the relationship. A lot of times, the salesperson disappears after the deal closes. Don't do that. Stay engaged. Check in regularly. Make sure they're getting what they need.

Anthony Iannarino (30:41):
The third thing, and this is really important, is you have to continuously deliver new value. You can't just rest on your laurels. Your competitors are out there trying to displace you. So you need to be constantly looking for ways to add more value, to solve more problems, to help them achieve more outcomes.

I like to have a roadmap. So when I start working with a client, I'll say, "Here's what we're going to do first. Then here's what we're going to do next. And then here's what we're going to do after that." That gives them a vision for the future and it keeps them engaged with you.

The last thing I'll say is, you have to have executive sponsorship. You can't just be working with the people who use your product every day. You need to have relationships at the executive level. Because when something goes wrong—and something will go wrong—you need to have those relationships to fall back on.

Jason Bay (31:31):
That's huge. Ryan, how do you think about retention at ZoomInfo?

Ryan Oosterveld (31:37):
Yeah, so we have a very structured customer success program. We have dedicated customer success managers who are assigned to each account. Their job is to make sure the customer is getting value, that they're using the product effectively, that they're achieving their goals.

We also do quarterly business reviews. We'll sit down with the customer, review their usage, review their results, and talk about what's next. That keeps us engaged with them and it gives us an opportunity to upsell or cross-sell when appropriate.

The other thing we do is, we're constantly innovating. We're releasing new features, new capabilities, new data sources. We make sure our customers know about these things. "Hey, we just released this new capability. Here's how it could help you."

Ryan Oosterveld (32:20):
We also track health scores for all of our customers. We're looking at usage data, we're looking at engagement, we're looking at satisfaction. If we see a health score drop, we get proactive. We reach out to them to understand what's going on and how we can help.

And similar to what Anthony said, we focus on the relationship. We make sure we have relationships at multiple levels in the organization. That way, if one person leaves or if there's a change, we're not starting from scratch.

Jason Bay (32:49):
Ralph, how do you think about retention in the construction space?

Ralph Barsi (32:54):
Yeah, so in construction, projects have a beginning and an end. So we have to constantly be looking for the next opportunity. What's the next project we can support? What's the next initiative we can help with?

We do this through regular check-ins. We're not waiting for them to call us. We're proactively reaching out to see how things are going, what's coming up, how we can help.

We also do training and enablement. Construction companies often have turnover, so we're constantly training new people on how to use our solution. That keeps the value going and it keeps us engaged with the account.

Ralph Barsi (33:28):
The other thing we do is, we celebrate wins with them. When they complete a project successfully, when they hit a milestone, we acknowledge that. We want to be part of their success. That emotional connection is really important.

And like the others said, we're constantly looking for ways to add more value. Maybe we started with one division or one project. How can we expand to other divisions or other projects? How can we solve more problems for them? That's how we grow the account and that's how we protect ourselves from competitors.

Jason Bay (34:00):
I love all of that. I think the key takeaway here is, you can't just win the deal and disappear. You have to stay engaged, you have to keep delivering value, you have to keep building the relationship.

Anthony, I want to ask you about something that you talk about a lot, which is the idea of executive briefings. Can you explain what an executive briefing is and how it plays into both gaining access and retaining accounts?

Anthony Iannarino (34:26):
Yeah, so an executive briefing is essentially a conversation where you share insights about trends and challenges in their industry or their business. It's not a sales pitch. You're not talking about your product. You're sharing your expertise and your perspective.

The format is usually pretty simple. You'll share three or four trends that are impacting their business. For each trend, you'll explain what it is, why it matters, and what they should be thinking about. Then you facilitate a conversation about how these trends are affecting them and what they might want to do about it.

The reason this is so powerful is because it positions you as a trusted advisor, not just a salesperson. You're giving them value without asking for anything in return. And executives love this because they're not getting sold to—they're getting insights that help them do their job better.

Anthony Iannarino (35:19):
I've seen this work time and time again. You'll do an executive briefing, and at the end, the executive will say, "This was really valuable. You've identified all of our problems and given us strategies to address them." Now you've got their attention and you've built credibility.

The other thing is, you can use executive briefings throughout the sales process. You can use them to gain access. You can use them in the middle of the process to keep the momentum going. And you can use them after you've won the deal to continue adding value and protecting the account.

I always tell salespeople, if you want to differentiate yourself, learn how to do executive briefings. It's one of the most powerful tools you have.

Jason Bay (36:00):
I love that. And I think it ties back to what we were talking about at the beginning, which is leading with insights, not leading with your product. The executive briefing is a great way to operationalize that.

Ryan, do you guys do anything similar at ZoomInfo?

Ryan Oosterveld (36:16):
Yeah, we do. We call them executive insights sessions. Similar to what Anthony described, we'll share data and trends that we're seeing across our customer base. "Here's what top-performing sales teams are doing. Here's what's changing in the market. Here's what you should be paying attention to."

We leverage our own data to make it really compelling. We can show them benchmarks—how they compare to others in their industry. That's really powerful because it's data-driven, it's objective.

We also bring in our executives for these conversations. So it's not just the sales rep. It might be our VP of Sales or someone from our product team. That adds credibility and it shows that we're investing in the relationship.

Ryan Oosterveld (36:58):
And like Anthony said, we use these throughout the customer lifecycle. We'll do them during the sales process, we'll do them during onboarding, we'll do them during quarterly business reviews. It's a consistent way for us to add value and stay engaged.

Jason Bay (37:14):
Ralph, what about you?

Ralph Barsi (37:17):
Yeah, so we do something similar. We'll share insights about what's happening in the construction industry. Maybe there's new regulations, maybe there's new technology, maybe there's new best practices. We want them to see us as experts in the space.

We also do project debriefs. After a project is completed, we'll sit down with them and review what went well, what could have gone better, what we learned. That's a form of an executive briefing because we're sharing insights based on the experience.

The key is, we're always adding value. We're not just showing up when we want to sell them something. We're showing up regularly with insights and ideas that help them be more successful.

Jason Bay (37:56):
Perfect. Okay, so we're coming up on time here. I want to do a rapid-fire Q&A. We've got a bunch of questions in the chat. Let me pull up a few of them.

First question: "How do you handle situations where the incumbent has a long-term contract and the customer says they can't switch until the contract is up?" Anthony, what would you say to that?

Anthony Iannarino (38:18):
I would say, that's fine. Let's start building the relationship now. Let's stay in touch. Let's keep adding value. So that when the contract is up, you're the first call they make. You can also ask, "Is there any way to get out of the contract early? What would that take?" Sometimes there's an out clause. But even if there's not, you just play the long game.

Jason Bay (38:41):
Perfect. Ryan, same question to you.

Ryan Oosterveld (38:45):
Yeah, I agree with Anthony. I would also say, sometimes you can find other opportunities within the same company. Maybe you can't replace them in one division, but you can get in with another division. So you start building that relationship and then you expand over time.

Jason Bay (39:02):
Love it. Ralph?

Ralph Barsi (39:04):
Yeah, same thing. I would also add, sometimes you can position yourself as a supplement, not a replacement. "You've got this vendor for this, but we can help you with this other thing." And then over time, you become more valuable and you eventually replace the incumbent.

Jason Bay (39:21):
Perfect. Okay, next question. "How do you handle situations where the prospect is giving you all the buying signals, but then at the last minute they decide to stick with their current vendor?" Anthony?

Anthony Iannarino (39:34):
This usually happens because we didn't de-risk the decision enough. Change is hard. So even if they know they should change, the fear of change is greater than the pain of staying. You have to address that fear throughout the process. Don't wait until the end.

Jason Bay (39:52):
Ryan?

Ryan Oosterveld (39:54):
Yeah, I would also say, sometimes there's a stakeholder who wasn't involved who killed the deal. So you've got to make sure you're engaging with all the key stakeholders throughout the process. Don't assume everyone's on board just because your champion is.

Jason Bay (40:10):
Ralph?

Ralph Barsi (40:12):
I would add, sometimes it's just not the right time. And that's okay. Stay in touch. Keep adding value. And when the time is right, they'll come back to you.

Jason Bay (40:23):
Love it. Okay, one more question. "How do you handle situations where you're in a competitive deal and the prospect asks you to directly compare yourself to the competitor?" Anthony?

Anthony Iannarino (40:36):
I would never do a direct comparison. I would say, "I can't speak to their solution. I can only speak to ours. But here's what makes us unique. Here's what we do really well. And here's how that translates to value for you." Focus on your strengths, not their weaknesses.

Jason Bay (40:55):
Ryan?

Ryan Oosterveld (40:57):
Yeah, I agree. I would also say, "I'm happy to provide you with information about us. And if you want to compare that to what the competitor is offering, that's up to you." Don't let them drag you into badmouthing the competition.

Jason Bay (41:12):
Perfect. Ralph?

Ralph Barsi (41:14):
Same thing. I would also offer to bring in a customer reference who can speak to why they chose us over a competitor. That's more powerful than anything I could say.

Jason Bay (41:26):
Love it. Okay, we're out of time. But before we wrap up, Anthony, I wanted to give you the last word. Any final thoughts or advice for folks on the call today about competitive displacement?

Anthony Iannarino (41:39):
Yeah, I would just say, focus on creating value. That's the name of the game. If you're creating more value than your competitor, you're going to win. If you're not, you're going to lose. It's that simple.

Don't get caught up in features and functions. Don't get caught up in price. Focus on the outcomes that the customer cares about and show them how you can help them achieve those outcomes better than anyone else. That's how you win competitive deals.

Jason Bay (42:09):
Perfect. All right, guys, thank you so much. This was awesome. Really appreciate all of you taking the time. For folks on the call, we're going to send out the recording. We'll also send out some resources.

Make sure to connect with Anthony, Ryan, and Ralph on LinkedIn. They've all got great content that they share. And if you have any follow-up questions, feel free to reach out to any of us. Thanks, everybody. Have a great rest of your day.

Anthony Iannarino (42:37):
Thanks, Jason.

Ryan Oosterveld (42:38):
Thanks, everyone.

Ralph Barsi (42:39):
Thank you.

Jason Bay (42:41):
All right. Take care, everybody.

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[TRANSCRIPT CONTINUES - Additional sections from the original that were truncated]

Anthony Iannarino (51:09):
I've done it so many times in staffing. Sometimes you have three people all working in the same company and you do have to do something to get rid of them. But you can't do anything negative, so you have to do something positive instead.

What you should probably think about is why you have a contract right now. That means you have access. If you have access, then what I'm going to tell you—and I know this works because I've done it—it's your ability to continue to give them new value.

If you don't have new value, it's very hard to displace competitors. But if you have new value, you go out, you get that client, you start executing, everything's going fine, and you think everything's going fine. No—your competitors may be trying to create new value to get rid of you.

Anthony Iannarino (52:12):
So you should always have a plan that once you start working with them, what are we going to do with them next? And then what are we going to do with them after that? If you want to do this the right way, when you have your first meeting, have a roadmap.

Say, "These are the things that we should do right now. After you get this in place, then we can do this—that will get you even further. And then after this, we can get you here."

You should start that conversation at the very beginning of the first meeting. You should start right there—that we have this plan to take you from here to there. I don't think that you can do anything about the competitors. They will probably not know to do new value all the time, and that would give you an advantage right away.

I learned very quickly, if you want to keep that client, if you want to retain them and you want to grow them, then you keep giving them new value. Once you run out of new value, then you've got problems. But if you do an executive briefing and you do that all the time and you're constantly giving them insights and telling them what you're learning, it's very easy for you to dominate that client.

Jason Bay (53:25):
Part of competitive displacement is making sure that you don't get displaced and not sitting on your laurels. I think a way to action this for those of you on the call: if you manage big accounts at your company, you probably do some sort of quarterly visit or review with a client.

Are you just showing up and talking about how awesome the tool or service did to get them a result? Or are you also coupling that with, "Hey, here's what's going on in the marketplace, in the industry right now. Here's what you need to prepare for over the next six to 12 months" so that you're setting up that upsell or that cross-sell, but you're also adding value in those conversations?

Because I think one of the things that we condition our customers to do sometimes is, to the executives, they stop taking those quarterly business reviews. It's all upsell talk. "Here's where you're getting value from our solution, by the way, we want to sell you some more stuff." There's no strategic value at all around what their competitors are doing, what they should be looking out for, etc.

Jason Bay (54:31):
Cool. We've got one more question and then we've got to bounce. This is a really good question. The person didn't put their name, but let's say that your org drinks the Kool-Aid and all the internal training is about how we're the best internally.

How do you start shifting the tide at scale so that reps actually get all the information and can capitalize on it? For example, leveraging loss reports, tracking industry awareness, etc. I think another way I might ask that question is, if you start to build some of this stuff at the leadership level and maybe it's not an org-wide thing that they do really well, how do you think about the reinforcement of getting the reps to actually use the stuff that you're creating?

Anthony Iannarino (55:17):
I'm going to tell you what my experience is. If I give somebody the training to do an executive briefing and they do it and they sit down and they realize—I'll give you a guy named Jeff. He didn't want to do it, he did it. He did it at lunch with a client and the client said, "You identified all of our problems and the strategies that we should do."

He sent me a note and said, "This is my proudest moment as a salesperson." Now he only does the executive briefing. It's probably 10 minutes for him. It's probably four trends that he'll go through, and we have a whole bunch of people that do it this way.

It does change the relationship at the very beginning. I think it's important to do something like that. I also think you should probably, if you don't have a good rigorous idea about how to take care of these things that we were talking about with the CRM, I would tell you it's very powerful and it's worth the time to put it into a CRM because that's where everything belongs.

Anthony Iannarino (56:27):
And later on, you're going to have a lot more knowledge of your competitors and how to beat them.

Jason Bay (56:35):
Yeah, this is a sales ops thing. For you sales leaders on here, this is something to work with your operations team on. I'm going to drop a couple links into the chat. Anthony, where can people go to check out your stuff?

Anthony Iannarino (56:50):
TheSalesBlog.com or LinkedIn.

Jason Bay (56:59):
Go check out his stuff. There's a link right there on how to run executive briefings. Go check out Anthony's blog. He's got a bunch of good books that he's come out with as well. One of them being "Eat Their Lunch." I think "Elite Sales Strategies" probably talks a lot about—those are the two books that are probably best for the topic today. Make sure to go check them out.

Anthony, as always, good jamming with you. Appreciate you coming on.

Anthony Iannarino (57:21):
Yeah, he says jamming because he wants to go right back to Van Halen. If you don't know that, now you know.

Jason Bay (57:28):
All right. Thank you everyone. Have a good one. We'll see you. Thanks for spending time with us.